My Four-Year-Old Son Plays Grand Theft Auto

Quote:

---

My Four-Year-Old Son Plays Grand Theft Auto

At the very impressionable age of four, my son loved Grand Theft Auto. More specifically, the version he played was the Hot Coffee moddable, San Andreas. Before Child Protective Services bestows upon me the prestigious honor of father of the year, allow me to explain.
Gaming has been a part of my sons’ life since the moment he was born, so I was not surprised when he showed an interest in video games as early as the age of two. I started him off where I began my gaming career: the original Nintendo Entertainment System. He built up his hand-eye coordination and took the bridge out from under Bowser in no time. Then, one day, he got a glimpse of me playing Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and asked if he could play. What happened next was quite the eye-opener.
With a DualShock controller in hand, he started to press each button individually as he tried to figure out what their functions were. Soon he asked, “How do I get in a car?” I pointed and told him, “The one with the green triangle on it.”

I egged him on to take the car in front of him which was waiting at the red light. He quickly looked up at me with disgust and refused, stating that the car was already owned by the person driving it. His response absolutely amazed me, so I decided to sit back and observe how he chose to interact with this highly controversial game without the aid of a rotten-minded adult.

He finally entered an unoccupied car and began driving. He was very mindful of the other cars and pedestrians. He didn't know the rules of the road, so he ran red lights and turned down one-way streets in the wrong direction. However, he did stop at intersections if a group of cars gathered waiting for the light to turn green.
At one such intersection he attempted to brake, but he was traveling too fast. Instead of plowing into the rear of the car ahead of him, he swerved to the right and popped up onto to sidewalk. In doing so, he accidently ran over a woman walking towards his oncoming car. He was incredibly ashamed of himself and profusely apologized.
“It’s okay. It’s only a game. It’s not real”, I reassured him. After a few minutes of me explaining the difference between a game and real life, he felt comfortable enough to continue playing.

Only seconds later, he witnessed a policeman jump out of his patrol car to pursue a criminal of San Andreas. His eyes lit up as he asked if he could drive the police car. I reminded him that it was only a game, and it was fine to take the car. As he drove the squad car, I pressed L3 to turn on the lights and siren. He asked very excitedly if he could get the bad guys too. With a huge smile I pressed R3 to initiate the Vigilante Missions. It was as if his imagination had come to life. He was taking down delinquents left and right. As expected, the dangerous work of an officer brought an ambulance.
At this point my son was familiar with the game’s mechanics and hopped into the ambulance. As he put the crime fighting behind him, he wondered aloud if it was possible to take people to the hospital. I instruct him to press R3, and then he was off to save a few lives. He was having a blast racing from point to point, picking up people in need, and then speeding off to Las Venturas Hospital. During one of his life saving adventures, he passed a fire house with a big, red, shiny fire truck parked out front. He didn't want to let his passengers down, so he took them to the hospital and then asked if I could guide him back to the fire truck.
Getting behind the driver’s seat of the fire truck awarded him with the most fun he had while playing Grand Theft Auto. With sirens blaring, he chased down the first red dot on the map. As he approached a car engulfed in flames he began showering it with the truck’s water cannon. Fire after fire, he extinguished them all.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1298/...3b3b32ef_b.jpg

Joe Lieberman's worst nightmare.

In all his time with Grand Theft Auto he never once encountered any of the controversy surrounding this notorious title. He didn’t beat any hookers with a baseball bat. He didn’t deal drugs. He didn’t go on a murderous rampage. He certainly never once had a cup of hot coffee. He didn't avoid these things because I told him he counldn't try them. It just never occurred to him to commit these acts.
The ESRB rating found on every game cover is a great tool for parents who are not familiar with games and their content, but I strongly disagree with using it as a tool to raise our kids. Every child is different and, as parents, it is our responsibility to cater to their individual needs. I understand not every kid is like mine, so I wouldn’t recommend that every parent allow their child to play Grand Theft Auto. But I would recommend that you listen and pay attention to your little ones to determine what they are capable of handling and what they are not ready for yet. They might even surprise you and find the light in something thought to have been so dark.

---

Quote:

---

I understand not every kid is like mine, so I wouldn’t recommend that every parent allow their child to play Grand Theft Auto. But I would recommend that you listen and pay attention to your little ones to determine what they are capable of handling and what they are not ready for yet. They might even surprise you and find the light in something thought to have been so dark.

---

Reading bed time stories can achieve the same thing. With the added effect that the kid has to stop and think about more than making it to the next game level, and possibly put it into spoken words. If the parents are actually speaking to their kids, as in a dialogue, and teaching that as a skill that matters most.

Ziggy, you posted a thread with an opinion article, and a pic of a cute little kid (wearing a Winnie the Pooh cap!) I don't see your opinion anywhere.....

That is why I posted in General Chat, and not in Debate and Discussion.

I just thought it was a cute article to share, so please leave me out of grudges you may have with regard to posting etiquette :)

It's no wonder parents fight so hard to keep their children as innocent as possible.

Sweet li'l story.

Cool story, if it's actually true. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

That is why I posted in General Chat, and not in Debate and Discussion.

I just thought it was a cute article to share, so please leave me out of grudges you may have with regard to posting etiquette :)

---

Okay. Just saying pretty much anything can be cute, without context. There are also people who think it's "cute" or comical to show kittens spinning in a dryer. Some parents also think it's "cute" to post pics of their toddler in a Pooh cap, and talk about how they play adult video games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

the added effect that the kid has to stop and think about more than making it to the next game level, and possibly put it into spoken words.

---

Not every "vidja game" is Super Mario. GTA has a free-roaming interactive environment, not "levels" per se; for the kid, it's like the Matrix, he gets to drive around in his car, obey the traffic rules and stop signs, and play being policeman, and so on. And he and Daddy talked about what was going on the whole time. How's that not thinking about it, and putting it into spoken words?

Agreed.

I think about my brother-in-law in this context.

I used to share a house with him and my sister in our early twenties. He and I used to have our PCs (486s :) ) rigged up next to each other in the spare room. We used to spend hours playing games with and against each other, designing Doom levels and the like. It was something we shared together and we formed a huge bond because of that.

Skip forward fifteen years, he and my sister have two boys, 11 and 9. They have grown up with video games, both PC and more recently Wii. Their father spends a lot of time with them playing games, discussing games, helping them through certain levels. When I go to visit, I join in too. The boys bond with their father through this medium. It's a good thing.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest GTA for a 9 or 11 yr old, let alone a 4 yr old, as it does deal with themes which I feel are not suitable for those age groups. However, that does not detract from the story given here about this fella's 4 yr old, and the sweet and innocent approach he took to an adult-themed game.

It throws up other interesting points too; namely, the altruistic nature of the (untainted?) child. All he wanted to do was help people, and was uncomfortable when, by his actions, people were or would be hurt.

GTA isn't the kind of game for a 4 year old. I don't care how hard that dad tries to make it sound normal, it's not. That dad can talk all he wants about how it's no big deal, but it sounds more like justifying his hobby to his son. Kids love to play cop and drive virtual cars, but they don't need GTA to do that. When his son is 8 years old and talking about taklng out/killing whores, it won't jive that society taught him that.

Quote:

---

However, that does not detract from the story given here about this fella's 4 yr old, and the sweet and innocent approach he took to an adult-themed game.

---

Would you also say it's sweet and innocent if the dad took the 4 year old to a casino to play craps, or to a brothel to visit whores? How about taking that 4 year old to an X rated movie? Those things are fine for an adult, but not fine for a toddler. Why should a virtual version be considered cute?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Timbuk2

Agreed.

I think about my brother-in-law in this context.

I used to share a house with him and my sister in our early twenties. He and I used to have our PCs (486s :) ) rigged up next to each other in the spare room. We used to spend hours playing games with and against each other, designing Doom levels and the like. It was something we shared together and we formed a huge bond because of that.

Skip forward fifteen years, he and my sister have two boys, 11 and 9. They have grown up with video games, both PC and more recently Wii. Their father spends a lot of time with them playing games, discussing games, helping them through certain levels. When I go to visit, I join in too. The boys bond with their father through this medium. It's a good thing.

---

Yeah. No need to limit oneself to good ole ways of entertaining kids just because. If the parent can assess the suitability of the content, it shouldn't matter if they're playing virtually or physically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

GTA isn't the kind of game for a 4 year old. I don't care how hard that dad tries to make it sound normal, it's not. That dad can talk all he wants about how it's no big deal, but it sounds more like justifying his hobby to his son. Kids love to play cop and drive virtual cars, but they don't need GTA to do that. When his son is 8 years old and talking about taklng out/killing whores, it won't jive that society taught him that.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Timbuk2

However, that does not detract from the story given here about this fella's 4 yr old, and the sweet and innocent approach he took to an adult-themed game.

It throws up other interesting points too; namely, the altruistic nature of the (untainted?) child. All he wanted to do was help people, and was uncomfortable when, by his actions, people were or would be hurt.

---

The point is that the kiddy-wink in question was horribly upset that he "took out a whore", and he had a discussion about reality and morality with daddy as a result. GTA isn't a game for a 9-year-old to play alone listening to negro music about raping and killing hos and enacting their sick culture on the television screen, no one is saying that. Stop fighting retarded "think of the children" straw men.

Can there be a "straw man" when we've never had 4 year olds playing games like GTA, with their parent's consent? Let alone their parents saying it's no big deal, but in fact.....it's CUTE?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

Okay. Just saying pretty much anything can be cute, without context. There are also people who think it's "cute" or comical to show kittens spinning in a dryer. Some parents also think it's "cute" to post pics of their toddler in a Pooh cap, and talk about how they play adult video games.

---

Kittens spinning in a dryer. Really? That is what you consider an appropriate connection here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

GTA isn't the kind of game for a 4 year old. I don't care how hard that dad tries to make it sound normal, it's not. That dad can talk all he wants about how it's no big deal, but it sounds more like justifying his hobby to his son. Kids love to play cop and drive virtual cars, but they don't need GTA to do that. When his son is 8 years old and talking about taklng out/killing whores, it won't jive that society taught him that.

---

Justifying his hobby to his son? Key-Riced.

Quote:

---

Would you also say it's sweet and innocent if the dad took the 4 year old to a casino to play craps, or to a brothel to visit whores? How about taking that 4 year old to an X rated movie? Those things are fine for an adult, but not fine for a toddler. Why should a virtual version be considered cute?

---

So, we've got: Putting kittens in a spinning dryer as an equivalent of this story and taking him to a casino and a brothel to visit whores, taking the kid to an X-rated movie as an equivalent to having the kid play this game supervised by a parent who is able to put things in context if something happens.

I suggest cutting down on the coffee for the rest of the day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

Can there be a "straw man" when we've never had 4 year olds playing games like GTA, with their parent's consent? Let alone their parents saying it's no big deal, but in fact.....it's CUTE?

---

That capitalized word there you're using as a bombshell? Read the article again dear. And this time without the frothing at the mouth at the idea.

Because you missed the point by a lightyear.

How many 4 year olds have you been around, Ziggy? You may think I'm nuts for bringing a bunch of adult activities in here, or saying what I did. But to a 4 year old they are all the same. They don't have the cognitive skills to deal with things like GTA. It's not good enough to say it's "just a game that daddy plays". That's the same thing meth cookers or pimps say to their kids when found out.....it's just a game daddy plays. Wanna play? When you see a guy with a badge at the door, you get a million game bucks if you stall him.

I mean really, what do you people think 4 year olds can comprehend? They still worry about the boogie man under their bed, and it seems very real to them. Some are very acute to strangers, and don't like being left with babysitters! It seems almost cruel to introduce a game like GTA. I don't know how anyone can consider that "cute".

Ocean's played GTA here and there, some Halo, and some Army of Two when Brent needs a partner while I'm at work. Honestly think the games have a smaller effect on her than they do on Brent. She seems to play them as a game, while Brent plays them to get ideas to play his own games around. Think the worst thing she has picked up is the word "crap" when she can't figure out how to do something on her own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

How many 4 year olds have you been around, Ziggy?

---

Oh crap in a jar. What the ef has this got to do with anything? Best friend's son is 4. So what?

Quote:

---

You may think I'm nuts for bringing a bunch of adult activities in here, or saying what I did.

---

Yeah, I think you're totally off your rocker when you compare the situation with taking the kid to a brothel.

Quote:

---

But to a 4 year old they are all the same.

---

How you can sit there and claim that playing this game and being taken to a brothel is not just comparable (which it clearly isn't) but even the same thing to a 4 year old is head on desk hitting ludicrously ridiculous.

Quote:

---

They don't have the cognitive skills to deal with things like GTA. It's not good enough to say it's "just a game that daddy plays". That's the same thing meth cookers or pimps say to their kids when found out.....it's just a game daddy plays. Wanna play? When you see a guy with a badge at the door, you get a million game bucks if you stall him.

---

Ok, adding to the loony analogies, meth hookers and pimps. Do you see the amount of unrelated bullshit you are dragging into the discussion to make your point?

I wouldn't let my kids play it (of course, since them playing it would require me buying it and I have no desire at all to do so...), but it's not some horrific thing.

The kid didn't see killing and whoring - he saw a fun game with cars where he got to be a cop, an emt, and a firefighter. If the dad had discussed teaching his son how to rob hookers, I'd have had a problem.

Ziggy: Four year olds aren't just tiny adults. Just because adults play GTA doesn't mean toddlers should. More importantly, just because a four year old stumbles on his dad playing the game doesn't mean the adult should turn it into a "See how cool my kid is" thing, or how little kids can play adult games "with daddy supervising".

If anyone is loony, I think it's the adults trying to downplay a four year old playing GTA.

I did a quick edit that maybe you didn't see, Ziggy. About four year olds and conception. They can not distinguishing between perceived fears (monsters under the bed) from real potential threats (strangers offering candy). Four year olds shouldn't be exposed to any more confusion than already exists in the world. They don't have the cognitive skills. You may love video games and think they're all cool, and could teach kids about strategy, and that's true. I wouldn't put four year olds in that group, though. They're barely out of diapers, and are still learning about basic concepts like reality or fantasy. For crying out loud, most 4 year olds are still figuring out where their poopies go.

GGT, whenever you decide to respond to any content I write, instead of making points to an imaginary Ziggy who said any of the stuff you seem to be replying to, we'll talk.

Only got past the title far enough to confirm Ziggy doesn't have a 4 year old son.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

That is why I posted in General Chat, and not in Debate and Discussion.

I just thought it was a cute article to share, so please leave me out of grudges you may have with regard to posting etiquette :)

---

You thought it was a "cute" article to share. Complete with a big image of the tyke in his Pooh cap.

This may not be in D & D but the question remains.....how is this a "cute" thing? Or how am I putting imaginary words in your mouth? :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Only got past the title far enough to confirm Ziggy doesn't have a 4 year old son.

---

You should read it, old man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

You should read it, old man.

---

Old man? :|

My assumption: GGT takes offense to the father in the article allowing his 4 year old to play GTA.

My question: What part of GTA do you specifically find offensive that this 4 year old discovered?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Old man? :|

---

You're older than me, aren't you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

You thought it was a "cute" article to share. Complete with a big image of the tyke in his Pooh cap.

This may not be in D & D but the question remains.....how is this a "cute" thing? Or how am I putting imaginary words in your mouth? :confused:

---

First, the cute part. Since everyone except for you understands why this is a cute thing, I'll not tell you. Instead I'll repeat my advice you read the article again. But without "the horror!" set off mind firmly in place before you read past the first paragraph.

Now about the putting the words in my mouth bit. Can you either explain that from my opinion this is a cute story, you can draw any of the following conclusions:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

Ziggy: Four year olds aren't just tiny adults. Just because adults play GTA doesn't mean toddlers should. More importantly, just because a four year old stumbles on his dad playing the game doesn't mean the adult should turn it into a "See how cool my kid is" thing, or how little kids can play adult games "with daddy supervising".

If anyone is loony, I think it's the adults trying to downplay a four year old playing GTA.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GGT

I did a quick edit that maybe you didn't see, Ziggy. About four year olds and conception. They can not distinguishing between perceived fears (monsters under the bed) from real potential threats (strangers offering candy). Four year olds shouldn't be exposed to any more confusion than already exists in the world. They don't have the cognitive skills. You may love video games and think they're all cool, and could teach kids about strategy, and that's true. I wouldn't put four year olds in that group, though. They're barely out of diapers, and are still learning about basic concepts like reality or fantasy. For crying out loud, most 4 year olds are still figuring out where their poopies go.

---

This is so chockfull of assumptions on your part, I'd need a lengthy post to reply to it all, which would be ignored by you just so you can go on explaining to me how a position I do not have is wrong. I'm so not in the mood for that. Instead, I heard you like over-dramatic analogies.

You are charging at windmills screaming "Death to the Child Eating 4 armed Giants! Come on Ziggy! Lets go get them!!"
"But they're windmills!"
"What, you approve of Child Eating 4 armed Giants?!?!?! Don't you know they eat children??"
I'm on a donkey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

My assumption: GGT takes offense to the father in the article allowing his 4 year old to play GTA.

My question: What part of GTA do you specifically find offensive that this 4 year old discovered?

---

You assume wrong. It's only a father thing because the OP was a dad. I think it's a parental thing. I am not offended by this game, but GTA is about grand theft, a felony. Of all the car games in all the world, GTA is maybe the worst one for a 4 year old. It's not like little tykes cars running an obstacle course, or bumper cars hitting fellow drivers or the wall.

His question: What part of GTA do you specifically find offensive that this 4 year old discovered?

Fine then, I am the minority poster. Feel free to call me names, or suggest I didn't understand the OP. Or that I have no sense of humor, or whatever. IMO it's not cute or wise or no big deal for a 4 year old to be playing GTA. Even with a parent talking about the roles, as a teacher or something. It's not a toddler game. It's not appropriate for toddlers. Most parents don't need a rating to tell them that. Any parent who tries to down play a 4 year old playing GTA has a screw loose. That's my opinion. Period.