Blackface

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLFHg2Yy2c

I would not necessarily open the youtube video if I'd live in the US (maybe UK) and I'd be at work. Probably I'd really not want to do that. If I'd be in The Netherlands, at the office, I would have no such qualms at all. The video is a bit silly to waste your work time with, but it's not considered even mildly offensive. If a person (no matter which ethnic background) would say it's racist, he'd be slammed down, and if he'd do so in a foreign accent or worse, english, he'd be accused of being culturally insensitive.

For the above reason I did not put the link as a youtube video, but I was a bit curious about how offensive people in other countries would find it. Do not click it unless you are really certain you are doing that in complete privacy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJeUye3zZnU

This second link I found is the same tradition but it's in Paramaribo (Surinam, South America)

Well, I wouldn't open it at work since it's, you know, not work, but I don't get where you think this is somehow unacceptable in the US. I don't know Dutch, but from the video alone it doesn't seem to be perpetuating any black stereotypes. I'm puzzled why they chose blackface in that context, but whatever.

Yes, blackface can indeed be racist, but it all depends on context. It's used comedically in the US all the time - probably the most famous recent case was Tropic Thunder, but there's plenty of others. The issue with blackface is when it's used to portray ridiculously racist stereotypes about black people... and, to some extent, blackface as a medium has been tarnished as a result outside of the shelter of comedy or farce. I can't really tell what the context was for this video you posted since I have no idea if the Dutch was just a translation of Gangnam Style or not. But offense? I'm more offended at the low quality video you made me watch.

I would really like to see what would happen in our media if anyone put that on teevee. 20 years ago no one would've been miffed, but today? I dunno. Interesting social experiment. When I was a child, the Stjernespill always had one person in black face, but I guess schools today could use one of the Somali boys for the part? *shrug*

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Originally Posted by wiggin

Well, I wouldn't open it at work since it's, you know, not work, but I don't get where you think this is somehow unacceptable in the US. I don't know Dutch, but from the video alone it doesn't seem to be perpetuating any black stereotypes. I'm puzzled why they chose blackface in that context, but whatever.

Yes, blackface can indeed be racist, but it all depends on context. It's used comedically in the US all the time - probably the most famous recent case was Tropic Thunder, but there's plenty of others. The issue with blackface is when it's used to portray ridiculously racist stereotypes about black people... and, to some extent, blackface as a medium has been tarnished as a result outside of the shelter of comedy or farce. I can't really tell what the context was for this video you posted since I have no idea if the Dutch was just a translation of Gangnam Style or not. But offense? I'm more offended at the low quality video you made me watch.

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My google-fu is failing me (I'm not trying very hard) but I think the word he says when you'd say 'sexy lady' is Santa Claus, and some of the scenes suggest black face is somehow related to local Christmas festivities?

The people in blackface are (in historical order) the slaves, servants, assistants of St Nicolaas, traditionally the role always involves a person painting his or her face black and paint on big red lips. I was a bit surprised by the Surinamese version because I had never seen a black person apply blackface before. Zwarte Piet is not a comical figure as such, even though I remember that when I was a child (which was in the 60s) he was absolutely not the sharpest knife in the kitchen. Let's say, butterknife sharp.

Yeah, but the whole Dutch thing with "Santa"/Peter is already sorta out there for just about everywhere else besides the Netherlands...in that context this doesn't really make a dent in the overall "Whaaaa" reaction most people have when they hear about it.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

Yeah, but the whole Dutch thing with "Santa"/Peter is already sorta out there for just about everywhere else besides the Netherlands...in that context this doesn't really make a dent in the overall "Whaaaa" reaction most people have when they hear about it.

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I can't follow you ?

Sorry, that was jumbled.

I'm saying the whole Dutch thing with "Santa" is so strange for non-Dutch people that it's not just the video that would shock most non-Dutch people. :)

You can still find blackface acts in the US, the context has changed is all. They seem to be pushed by black entertainers like Nicki Minaj.

Here is one music video that draws that parallel.

No clue what the title has to do with the youtube links...or wtf is being asked.

The first musical measures were clearly related to the Gangnam craze.






ps "Blackface" is a theatrical method. Early actors were all male, and performing as females was also a theatrical method. Some operas incorporated those disparate methods quite brilliantly, including Madame Butterfly by Puccini.

I haven't watched the video yet, but the notion of "blackface" if I understand correctly from what's described did go out of fashion completely - like a few things it does seem to come back sometimes though.

I rather like 80s music and there's this fun song with a rather cool (for then, crappy quality now) music video which involved blackface at times - but I believe nowadays if it were replayed on a music channel the blackface has been censored out.

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Originally Posted by GGT

No clue what the title has to do with the youtube links...or wtf is being asked.

The first musical measures were clearly related to the Gangnam craze.






ps "Blackface" is a theatrical method. Early actors were all male, and performing as females was also a theatrical method. Some operas incorporated those disparate methods quite brilliantly, including Madame Butterfly by Puccini.

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The video is not about Gangnam of course, it's just a fairly random example of a phenomenon, which is the blackface thing which could easily be percieved as racist (all explanations to the contrary sound a bit contrived). Yet, black people addressing it's racist nature are being called spoilsports. I think you could even say that calling it racist is less accepted in Holland today than it was 30 years ago.