The earth is flat. Science is bogus. The Bible is real.

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The sun and moon, in the Johnson version, are only about 32 miles in diameter. They circle above the earth in the vicinity of the equator, and their apparent rising and setting are tricks of perspective, like railroad tracks that appear to meet in the distance. The moon shines by its own light and is not eclipsed by the earth. Rather, lunar eclipses are caused by an unseen dark body occasionally passing in front of the moon.Johnson's beliefs are firmly grounded in the Bible. Many verses of the Old Testament imply that the earth is flat, but there's more to it than that. According to the New Testament, Jesus ascended up into heaven."The whole point of the Copernican theory is to get rid of Jesus by saying there is no up and no down," declares Johnson. "The spinning ball thing just makes the whole Bible a big joke."Not the Bible but Johnson's own common sense allowed him to see through the globe myth while he was still in grade school. He contends that sensible people all over the world, not just Bible believers, realize that the earth really is flat.

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http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm

And here is the sign-up letter:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flatearth.html

So the point here is this: Evolution. How are creationist (antievolutionist) views different from the Flat Earth Society?

Any creationists here who want to make the case that their arguments are different from the above?

All credit to talkorigins where I read about the honorable society of Flat Earth Skeptics.

Unreadable on white background.

Does anyone subscribe to their chosen ideology 100%?

No puns intended but the idea that God created the universe and got the ball rolling isn't really provable or refutable, and I think that's all a creationist has to contend in the loosest sense. In the stronger sense they will contend that God guided evolution, and in the strongest scientifically indefensible sense they'll claim that God made each animal, including humans, exactly as we see them today.

As far as this man is concerned, this Flat Earther, while I totally disagree with him, there is a certain admiral quality in that he chooses to think for himself, and comes to the same conclusion that many many people in the past must have believed. The only quality of his that gives me scorn is his stubbornness, and inability to change. This is likely due to the fact that he has made this Flat Earth belief so connected to his core identity that to change it will cause him emotional trauma. When you value yourself based on certain beliefs then it becomes hard to change them (which i'm sure he has pride in this belief, coming up with it in middle school), and the brain itself resists this emotionally, thus, chemically imbalanced state.

This is Why it's hard to persuade people on certain beliefs often on Religion and Politics, but it could be any obsessive belief.

Flat Earth Society was dreamed up in totality by Talk Origins wasn't it? As a way of illustrating how ludicrous creationist theory is.

No, the flat earth society is/was a real thing, though it was pretty much just this one dude.

Is anyone surprised this measles outbreak is traced directly to a fundie Bible-thumping, homeschooling, science-denying "Christian" megachurch in Texas?

:(

Following the hyperlink on that CNN report (kcm.org, August 31, 2010) leads to this:

http://www.kcm.org/media/webcast/ken...-wellness-plan

The entire "televangelism" gig titled God's Health and Wellness Plan is perversely interesting, but if you can't stomach the whole sermon, click at the 18-20 minute mark. They segue from scientifically proven healthy practices in diet, cooking techniques, even breast-feeding....to skepticism of vaccinations/immunizations.

WTF is wrong with these people? And how do they manage to convince thousands of other people that modern science and medical doctors are instruments of Satan...and the only thing they really need for total health/wellness/healing is faith in God?

:confused: :sour:

Not just thumpers, even Bill Maher was debating the effectiveness of immunization with a Dr. (maybe because he was a Republican Senator)

I was amazed that Bill was being stupid on this one.

Maybe they were debating the HPV vaccine? Since it's still relatively new, nothing is known about its longevity, or when boosters might be needed. (And it was controversial when only young girls were getting the vaccine, and not including young boys as carriers of a sexually transmitted virus.)

There's also disturbing crap coming out of The 700 Club and Pat Robertson. Yeah, these people vote. :picard:

No, it was the whole idea if immunizations. Bill is big on natural food and not poisoning the body (except for pot of course).

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Originally Posted by GGT

Is anyone surprised this measles outbreak is traced directly to a fundie Bible-thumping, homeschooling, science-denying "Christian" megachurch in Texas?

:(

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Yeah, dumb fundie Bible-thumping, science denying folk like Jenny McCarthy and Robert Kennedy Jr.

There's no scientific proof that childhood vaccinations cause autism-spectrum disorders. Some of the initial vaccination skepticism is traced to a Lancet "published study" which has since been debunked, refuted, and removed. :bored:

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Originally Posted by GGT

There's no scientific proof that childhood vaccinations cause autism-spectrum disorders. Some of the initial vaccination skepticism is traced to a Lancet "published study" which has since been debunked, refuted, and removed. :bored:

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Okay? What does that have to do with the price of lemons in Peru?

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

Yeah, dumb fundie Bible-thumping, science denying folk like Jenny McCarthy and Robert Kennedy Jr.

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Que?

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Originally Posted by Aimless

Que?

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They are two fairly prominent vaccine skeptics that aren't what most would consider Bible thumping, science denying fundies.

Crazy isn't bound by ideology.

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

They are two fairly prominent vaccine skeptics that aren't what most would consider Bible thumping, science denying fundies.

Crazy isn't bound by ideology.

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I don't know about Bible-thumping but clearly science-denying, albeit in specific ways :o

I also recall seeing a survey showing that 40% of self-identified "liberals" believed in astrology...Most of the inane opposition to GM foods comes from the left. At least the fundies oppose science because God tells them to. The lefties who oppose it are simply stupid.

I've met a lot of the "vaccines cause autism" people - some of them seem completely sane until that comes up - the worst ones are the ones who then take that belief and try to "cure" their child's autism. I think that (if they are parents of an autistic child) they're just looking for an answer, and they'll cling to something that they think sounds reasonable, even if it has been disproved.

I know a few other types of vaccine skeptics too - fundamentalist Christians, conspiracy theorists, and a couple of people who are just completely crazy. For those types, they tend to believe and share other crazy things regularly. I don't think this one can be pigeonholed as a liberal/conservative issue - stupid is stupid.

Over here vaccination issues actually are religious, the reason isn't a distrust about, say, autism, but declining the vaccinations for purely religious reasons. Only this summer we had a measles and rubella outbreak in our 'bible belt'. There are some other groups who don't all vaccinate (scared of autism, or antrosopophic people), but the religious group is bigger and more grouped, which removes the group protection. So actual outbreaks rather than an isolated case is a religious problem here.

Btw, even in the strict religious groups a majority (60%) vaccinated their kids, and the government offers 'discrete' vaccination so you can secretly have your kids vaccinated, without being condemned for it by others.

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

They are two fairly prominent vaccine skeptics that aren't what most would consider Bible thumping, science denying fundies.

Crazy isn't bound by ideology.

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I didn't say it was. But that specific measles outbreak is traced directly to that church, and preaching vaccination skepticism. A movie star or politician doesn't have the same ability to impact a direct-contact community like that church, or cause a localized outbreak. Like Flixy said, religious communities lose the group protection that larger, unrelated communities have.