Obama's IRS.... The land of the Free

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...cmp=latestnews

"McLellan is one of many business owners who have been caught up in a controversial federal practice known as civil forfeiture. Under this policy, federal agents have been able to seize the property and bank accounts of anyone they suspect of having criminal ties. The burden of proof falls on the owner even if no charges are filed."

Burden of proof should never fall on the citizen. That is so backwards it is painful.

"In many civil forfeiture cases, the government will make a deal with the owner where he or she will agree to turn over half their money seized in order to get a lengthy and costly legal fight to go away. But the practice has come under intense congressional and media scrutiny. "

Wow.... just wow.

What does any of this long-standing abuse have to do with Obama, Lewk? Besides the fact that it's apparently under his auspices that it's starting to be cut down.

The one statistic actually provided uses data which started in 2005, during the Bush Jr. administration. The habit of seizing property like that in the course of the "War on Drugs" originated with the Reagan administration I believe, and then of course the "War on Drugs" itself started with Nixon.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g...72_4293944.gif

http://new4.fjcdn.com/gifs/Obama_aef20a_5452092.gif

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

What does any of this long-standing abuse have to do with Obama, Lewk? Besides the fact that it's apparently under his auspices that it's starting to be cut down.

The one statistic actually provided uses data which started in 2005, during the Bush Jr. administration. The habit of seizing property like that in the course of the "War on Drugs" originated with the Reagan administration I believe, and then of course the "War on Drugs" itself started with Nixon.

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Because this happened during his watch and despite congress, talk radio and Fox news looking into it, this guy still doesn't have his money? And Nixon was pretty liberal. (At least according to big liberals).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4832847.html

Furthermore the purpose during the Reagan administration was to go after criminals - not bully small business owners regarding the deposit size they made. Gee which party hates small business?

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Because this happened during his watch

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Except it has happened more under the watch of Republicans than Democrats. And it certainly didn't originate with a Democrat. Are we to blame Obama for the former Prime Minister of Iraq? That guy ruled the country under Obama's watch too, just like he did under Bush Jr.

That guy was charged in October, does that mean the Autumn is to blame for it? It happened under the watch of the Fall season.

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Gee which party hates small business?

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The GOP. The Democrats do more to help small business than they do to help big business while the Republicans do the reverse, they help big business more than they help small busines.

How dare you water down his rant using facts?

But yes, civil forfeiture is a problem. Not just at the federal level though, but somehow I don't see lewk defending poor people who are abused by it.

Lewk's obviously talking out of his furry behind, but, nevertheless, that case seems fucked up. What will it take to change these practices and what are the obstacles? Can this guy sue the IRS to get his money back?

Unless you are the Church of Scientology, suing the IRS is a bit daunting.

Never mind the IRS, what about the police departments?

Sue them for what exactly? The cops are working within the law. Just a very horrid one.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

... despite congress, talk radio and Fox news looking into it ...

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LOL or WTF? Mind...is...bending..... :bulb::noob:

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And Nixon was pretty liberal. (At least according to big liberals).

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So was Reagan by today's GOP standards.... :down:

That made me chuckle; Reagan is to modern day Republicans what Jesus is to fundamentalist Christians; they adore the man yet despise what he stood for.

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Originally Posted by Hazir

That made me chuckle; Reagan is to modern day Republicans what Jesus is to fundamentalist Christians; they adore the man yet despise what he stood for.

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That is a fine analogy.

The problem with human psychology is that regardless of what's posted here and regardless of the facts in general Lewk and millions of like-minded Americans are still fuming at Obama for creating and maintaining the civil forfeiture policy (and for not producing his birth certificate).

But that's ridiculous, Reagan was the one who failed to produce Obama's birth certificate

Fuzzy your crazy if you think liberals are friends of small business!

1. Minimum wage dis-proportionally impacts small business. Who likes minimum wage increases?
2. Torts can screw over a small business especially since they can't afford to have an army of lawyers on retainer like big business can. Which party is in favor of tort reform?
3. Small business owners vote for Republican far more often than they vote for Democrat. Why?
4. Small business owners get hit with estate taxes (yes it depends on how it is structured as well). Before you counter this claim please remember how a small business is defined by the industry. (Ie a company with 499 employee is typically considered a small business).
5. Liberals LOVE taxation through fees. They love the requirment to fill out forms and minutia making it difficult for budding would be business owners to get started.
6. And god forbid some endangered critter (typically a variant of a species) be on your land. You get no rights then.

For once, Lewk is right. :o

http://nsba.biz/docs/Politics-Survey-2014.pdf

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Fuzzy your crazy if you think liberals are friends of small business!

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That's not what you said. You asked for a comparison between the parties. The GOP is more preferential toward big business than small business and the Dems are more preferential toward small business than big business. Listing anecdotes going one way or the other is meaningless, just as it was in the HuffPo piece you cited.

No you said the GOP hates small business.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

That's not what you said. You asked for a comparison between the parties. The GOP is more preferential toward big business than small business and the Dems are more preferential toward small business than big business. Listing anecdotes going one way or the other is meaningless, just as it was in the HuffPo piece you cited.

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Same Democrats who just voted for a $15/hour minimum wage in LA?

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

No you said the GOP hates small business.

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No, you asked which party hates small business, a rhetorical question as you feel the answer must inevitably be the Dems, and I answered by saying that comparatively, the Dems favor small business and the GOP favors big business. Not my fault that using your metrics doesn't give you the answer you think it does.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Same Democrats who just voted for a $15/hour minimum wage in LA?

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There's that New Yorker in you peeking out, Loki, thinking national conditions are just local urban conditions writ large. One city council doesn't speak for nor represent the views of close to half the country.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

There's that New Yorker in you peeking out, Loki, thinking national conditions are just local urban conditions writ large. One city council doesn't speak for nor represent the views of close to half the country.

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This $15 movement has strong Democratic (and union) support at the grassroot level. National-level Democrats are generally smart enough to hedge their bets, but they're not exactly denouncing it either.

Fuzzy...

"Gee which party hates small business?"

"The GOP."

Though perhaps I should have been more inclusive. Which party hates private enterprise? Which party hates business? Which party supports more governmental control of the economy?