End Bail for Illegals

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11-26-2018, 07:56 PM
Lewkowski

End Bail for Illegals

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/2...manda-ferguson

A suspected illegal immigrant is facing charges in the hit-and-run death of a sixth-grade teacher on Thanksgiving morning in El Paso, Texas.

Police said Joel Velazquez, 24, ran a red light and struck 28-year-old Amanda Ferguson while she crossed the street around 2:00am local time Thursday.

Velazquez was reportedly out of jail on bond for a 2017 assault charge and was in the country illegally, according to KFOX14.

***

This seems like a completely straight forward solution. If you are here illegally you are clearly a proven flight risk. End bail for illegal immigrants and then this poor woman wouldn't have been killed. It really is time for common sense.
11-26-2018, 08:02 PM
Wraith

If they're only suspected illegal, why would innocent until proven guilty not apply?
11-26-2018, 08:15 PM
Ominous Gamer

Having a traffic violation being the tipping point seems suspect too. Why only apply this to, or single out, supposed illegals? I'd love to see justification research on that.

He wants to cry about the metoo movement, but has no beef with guy sitting in jail for over a year waiting for his day in court over a suspected assault?

For a conservative, that's a lot of needlessly wasted taxpayer money.
11-26-2018, 09:10 PM
Aimless

Translation: "end constitution".
11-26-2018, 10:45 PM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraith

If they're only suspected illegal, why would innocent until proven guilty not apply?

Automatic citizenship check for anyone arrested. The person has to be IDed which should make it very simple to make that determination. And obviously if someone cannot be identified then they can't be released either.
11-26-2018, 10:46 PM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimless

Translation: "end constitution".

Oh I'd love to hear how not allowing criminal illegals bail is a violation of the constitution.
11-26-2018, 11:32 PM
Aimless

I understand that you are an idiot, but, under the US constitution, pretty much everyone has the right to request bail and to have their request be given fair consideration. You and I both know this is just another pathetic attempt to argue, incorrectly, that the constitution doesn't apply to brown immigrants, just as we both know that you're full of shit when you make a blanket assertion that all undocumented immigrants are clearly such great flight risks that they must be denied bail by default. What puzzles me is that you continue to pretend I don't know how full of shit you are.
11-27-2018, 01:38 AM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimless

I understand that you are an idiot, but, under the US constitution, pretty much everyone has the right to request bail and to have their request be given fair consideration. You and I both know this is just another pathetic attempt to argue, incorrectly, that the constitution doesn't apply to brown immigrants, just as we both know that you're full of shit when you make a blanket assertion that all undocumented immigrants are clearly such great flight risks that they must be denied bail by default. What puzzles me is that you continue to pretend I don't know how full of shit you are.

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

The constitution prohibits excessive bail, it does not require bail to be given.
11-27-2018, 03:18 AM
Ominous Gamer

It's been ruled that your quote "Excessive bail shall not be required," establishes bail considerations as a constitutional right.

Please stop acting like a dumbass.
11-27-2018, 03:18 AM
ar81

Other countries have bad driving habits. USA is a very organized nation, order is amazing in most of US.
Other countries do not even paint their streets or put signs appropriately and in those countries traffic lights are more of a suggestions, instead of a command.
Blend USA and these aspects of other netions and the result is poor.
The problem with illegals is that they did not pass through a process to be a good citizen.
Bails or lack of bails will not solve the problem or seem connected to the root cause.
11-27-2018, 03:49 AM
Loki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewkowski

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

The constitution prohibits excessive bail, it does not require bail to be given.

Not granting bail is the most excessive type of bail...that means it's only allowed under the most extreme conditions.
11-27-2018, 11:54 AM
RandBlade

Denying bail is clearly "excessive bail" you dingbat. What do you think "excessive bail" means otherwise?

Perhaps the bigger question is why in November 2018 someone is still on bail from a 2017 charge. There does seem to be an excessive delay between charge and trial - which would make denying bail all the more excessive.
11-27-2018, 12:41 PM
Steely Glint

Clearly the founding fathers were sitting around in their knee length coats, britches and turned up collars thinking "Excessive bail is bullshit, but setting no-bail at all is A-OK" when they put that bit in the constitution.
11-27-2018, 08:46 PM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Cearly the founding fathers were clearing sitting around in their knee length coats, britches and turned up collars thinking "Excessive bail is bullshit, but setting no-bail at all is A-OK" when they put that bit in the constitution.

Certain crimes allowed for bail and others did not allow for bail. As an end run around those statutes English a-hole judges would just set the bail to astronomical amounts that could not be paid as an end round around the legal requirement for certain crimes to have bail.

The constitution clearly allows for the denial of bail otherwise psychotic murderers could not be held prior to their trial under any circumstances.
11-27-2018, 09:08 PM
Steely Glint

You can't just deny bail across the board like that, you have to be show the person, as in them as a individual, represents a flight risk and or a serious danger to the community.

Three people have already made essentially the same point, in slightly different ways. Did you think trying that stupid argument on a forth person was going to have different results?
11-27-2018, 10:23 PM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Glint

You can't just deny bail across the board like that, you have to be show the person, as in them as a individual, represents a flight risk and or a serious danger to the community.

The point is that by virtue of them being here illegally they are a flight risk. If the belief is that Trump is gonna get them outta here what incentive do they have to show up to trial? Even if they are found not-guilty for the crime they were arrested for they get booted out of the country afterwards. It makes obvious sense that they are a clear flight risk.
11-27-2018, 11:04 PM
LittleFuzzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandBlade

Denying bail is clearly "excessive bail" you dingbat. What do you think "excessive bail" means otherwise?

Perhaps the bigger question is why in November 2018 someone is still on bail from a 2017 charge. There does seem to be an excessive delay between charge and trial - which would make denying bail all the more excessive.

It's not. For a major felony with a refusal to plea-bargain, unless it's really cut and dried or the defendant just has an overworked public defender it can take up to two years for charges to go to trial.
11-27-2018, 11:08 PM
LittleFuzzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewkowski

The point is that by virtue of them being here illegally they are a flight risk. If the belief is that Trump is gonna get them outta here what incentive do they have to show up to trial? Even if they are found not-guilty for the crime they were arrested for they get booted out of the country afterwards. It makes obvious sense that they are a clear flight risk.

Except he hasn't fled so that's clearly not the case and you're just pulling shit out of your ass as usual. If he had fled, he wouldn't be around to possibly have committed this new offense of yours, would he?
11-27-2018, 11:46 PM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

Except he hasn't fled so that's clearly not the case and you're just pulling shit out of your ass as usual. If he had fled, he wouldn't be around to possibly have committed this new offense of yours, would he?

He hadn't been caught and identified by authorities at that point. It is only once he is arrested does the government know he is illegal.
11-27-2018, 11:47 PM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

It's not. For a major felony with a refusal to plea-bargain, unless it's really cut and dried or the defendant just has an overworked public defender it can take up to two years for charges to go to trial.

This by the way is fucking insane. The time between arrest, charging and trial should never take that long. I know that it does but it shouldn't.
11-28-2018, 12:10 AM
Ominous Gamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewkowski

He hadn't been caught and identified by authorities at that point. It is only once he is arrested does the government know he is illegal.

Considering that illegal crossings aren't the source of a majority of illegals, this can be assumed false unless there is more information to this story outside of the link you started with.
11-28-2018, 01:48 AM
GGT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewkowski

...

This seems like a completely straight forward solution. If you are here illegally you are clearly a proven flight risk. End bail for illegal immigrants and then this poor woman wouldn't have been killed. It really is time for common sense.

Yes, it's time you come to your senses....and realize that *citizenship* doesn't prevent hit-and-run vehicular deaths. :bored:
11-28-2018, 04:10 AM
LittleFuzzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewkowski

He hadn't been caught and identified by authorities at that point. It is only once he is arrested does the government know he is illegal.

Which according to you was in 2017. He's facing fresh charges now but was on bail from charges back in 2017. He clearly hasn't fled. Demonstrating that you and your claim are full of shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewkowski

This by the way is fucking insane. The time between arrest, charging and trial should never take that long. I know that it does but it shouldn't.

You get what you pay for and you want to keep government starved of funds. Which means not having enough judges and court support for a quicker judicial process. Maybe try funding the public defender's office a little better so they can actually do their jobs effectively and not have to file for continuance after continuance to provide even minimal legal coverage.
11-28-2018, 04:46 AM
Lewkowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGT

Yes, it's time you come to your senses....and realize that *citizenship* doesn't prevent hit-and-run vehicular deaths. :bored:

She'd be alive if he wasn't here. That's the point GGT, you can pretty it up all you want but he had no right to be here and he took an American citizen's life.
11-28-2018, 12:36 PM
Steely Glint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewkowski

The point is that by virtue of them being here illegally they are a flight risk. If the belief is that Trump is gonna get them outta here what incentive do they have to show up to trial? Even if they are found not-guilty for the crime they were arrested for they get booted out of the country afterwards. It makes obvious sense that they are a clear flight risk.

Well, shit, I guess I didn't know the rule was 'you can't deny bail to an entire class of defendants unless you can come up with some half-assed post-hoc justification to do so'.

*finger to ear-mic*

Yeah, I just found out that's actually not the rule and you are full of shit again.

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