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In fairness to Bubba, he apparently wasn't the one who reported the noose and supposedly never even saw it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/...arage-n1231951
Conservatives are claiming this is the picture of the infamous "noose" and I'm not sure if that's true but without a picture saying otherwise...
https://conservativeus.com/bubba-smo...ncident-video/
What's the lesson here? Don't trust the media.
Do you ever read your own stories? Everything reported was true. Yes, the noose was there for a year, but no one knew that before the investigation.
"Noose"Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Did you read the story and see the photograph of what people are saying it was?
I have some reservations about passing this on since lewk is just a racist idiot looking for attention with threads like this. Also couldn't help but laugh at his whining concerning not trusting the news yet he shares a totally not biased at all shit hole site with unsubstantiated claims.
My dad and his dad both spent some years on the track. My coworker is also a crew chief for some lower class family racing, the stuff you would see on the weekends at Sebring. So I still have a foot in the circles that have been stirred up by this event.
Petty is very much holding NASCAR to the fire over this. And still pushing for fines or sanctions for the team that did put it up. First off, this is the south, everyone knows exactly what was left behind and what it means, even if the last team didn't know that the only black man driver in the organization would end up in that garage. Secondly, no one ties a noose to a garage door, anything less than a full loop means lots of banging, lifting and pointless effort.
There's really not a nigger in the world you don't hate Lewky?
LOL yes I'm sure the planned it a year ago. You are being ridiclious and you know it. I bet you believed at face value the Amarai Allen hoax. The Jussie Smollet hoax. The Covington hoax. Johnny Depp false allegations. You believed them all, didn't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
I literally said it wasn't planned, doesn't make the message any less real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Why are you so god damn stupid?
Violent spanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
https://i.imgur.com/SmEMFc0.jpg
So yeah, thats a straight up noose. NASCAR also searched all of their 1684 garage stalls and this was the only one (cause again, you always use a full loop here). Looking more and more like the last team had a racist idiot on it (or were complacent with it being there) and it just so happened to be the garage that Bubba's team was assigned.
Just so we are clear here, the premise you are putting forth is that a specific type of knot, irrespective of context is inherently racist? I can imagine any number of possibilities that don't involve racism. For instance I personally enjoy tying and practicing tying different types of knots - maybe a former team member was too, or perhaps at one point there was a toy or stuffed animal that was strung up as a joke - something I have seen in other work places. There are any number of possibilities that don't involve racism. Was it also racist to depict Brooks in the Shawshank Redemption committing suicide with a noose? Being so willing to jump to the conclusion that this was done because of racism is ridiculous. I am unwilling to concede that a particular knot formation is racist without additional context, and I am unsure why you would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
"The noose always means much more than a knot in a rope ... The noose was a tool used to kill people and, therefore, it is a threat -- it is violent speech... The noose has become the new burning cross."
-"The Thirteenth Turn: A History of the Noose."
As Petty already said, this is the south, people know exactly what this means.
So regardless of context, a noose always means racism? Any spaghetti western where a white guy gets strung up is racist? Anybody who commits suicide with a noose is making a political statement? Do you not see the ridiculousness of this position?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
If a cross is hit by lightning and catches fire, is it also racist? If a child pulls a pillow case over their head, are they being racist?
Got any examples of someone using a noose to commit suicide. :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
Sure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Believe it or not it is one of the most common ways to commit suicide.
Someone making a noose for its intended purpose is one thing. Someone making a noose in a workplace and leaving it there is another matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
So let us imagine that originally there was a (white) Stretch Armstrong that was strung up as a form of gallows humor, would that be an act of racism?Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I'm reminded of that thing with DeSantis telling people not to "monkey" things up with Gillum. People know. You have to actively bang your head against a wall and turn your brain into galaxy brain mush to not hear some of these dog whistles. Which, I guess, is how some get their jollies? Anyway, what a Bors comic this is turning into.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
We don't know what happened or what you can imagine but we do know it was inappropriate and leaving it their at the very least was ignorant. At the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
I'm not saying it wasn't potentially inappropriate, or even rooted in ignorance. For that matter I am not willing to say it was not flat out racist. All of those are valid possibilities. What I am saying is that without additional information or context it is foolish to assume any imagined scenario is the definite truth. Would it be inappropriate had this particular knot been tied by someone from a different culture, a culture that does not attribute the same symbolism to this knot? Would you still view it in the same light?Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
What is telling are those who would seek to intentionally ascribe racist motivations and meaning to the event without knowing the context in which it took place. If the context was this noose was tied after the garage was assigned to the only black NASCAR driver, that has one context, but it does not seem that is the case. All that can be said at this time is that trying to read more into it without having additional information speaks only to the motivations and biases of the person doing the reading, and not to the person who originally tied the noose.
Their feelings don't care about your facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
Okay, I will bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
You realize that the hangman’s noose is a subset of noose, (see your own article, which in fact references the NASCAR incident in the general article on nooses) that is used most frequently in hanging in order to break the neck as opposed inducing death by strangulation. Now, I haven’t seen a breakdown of the million plus suicide deaths per year by specific knot/noose type, (please share your findings) but it stands to reason that a percentage of those deaths used the knot that is most commonly associated with a quick and painless death.
As was already said, this is NASCAR, possibly the most profitable redneck enterprise the US has. People know exactly what the noose means.
No, this is where we disagree. People know what a noose can mean given the proper context. If you come across a cross burning on someones lawn, it is entirely possible that it was placed their intentionally and set alight in order to send a very specific threat to the home owner. It is also possible that the home owner placed the cross there themselves and it was recently struck by lightning. Without additional information drawing a conclusion and being unwilling to admit that you might be wrong, or have an incomplete understanding of the actual event is foolhardy. To say the noose is itself inherently one thing or another is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Cross on lawn set afire by lightning. We have reached peak galaxy brain.
I believe you are purposefully being obtuse. The example was intentionally ridiculous. The point is without context drawing conclusions about intent is often difficult, if not impossible. If I see a transcript of a conversation where racial epithets are being used I might draw a conclusion about the meaning and intent of the individuals involved. I might even justifiably assume they are racists. If I later learn that it was a conversation between two black men using the epithet in a vastly different way than I had first surmised then it is safe to say I drew an erroneous conclusion. Context matters - and this is something you understand and know on a deep level. This is something you have argued for before. It is also something you are not permitting yourself to admit here because you are trying to confirm your biases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
The "context" is that the noose was found right after NASCAR banned the confederate flag at its properties, when its only black driver (with Black Lives Matter painted on his car) made the request. You'd have to be obtuse to ignore that. :donkey:
Except my understanding is that the noose was there long before the garage was even assigned to that driver, or they banned the confederate flag. Does it make sense to investigate - absolutely - did the investigation turn up any evidence linking the noose to Bubba Wallace? No, it uncovered the opposite in fact. Is the noose evidence of anything at this point? Not without additional context.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
It absolutely made sense to investigate, based on the timing of events. That's the "context" that matters.
OG can *also* be right about the racial undertones in NASCAR, and the south in general--- where people know exactly what a noose implies. No other garage used that particular knot as a door pull, so it wasn't some innocent mistake. An isolated event can be a "dog whistle" to white supremacists, that's how racism thrives.
You're a smart and reasonable guy who can appreciate symbolism and cultural changes, right? So you should probably stop defending the noose as some innocent knot, and start recognizing that certain symbols are offensive (and even threatening) to black people. :bored: