You Have No Secrets

How is this even legal? Or did they just not care about prosecuting anyone? And shouldn't they be prosecuted for invading the privacy of thousands of innocent people using these things? I mean, how did they make sure they only listened to criminals?

Can You Hear Me Now? Loud and Clear All You Criminals

I have to say this reminded me a lot of the time they sold pre-tapped phones to drug dealers in The Wire.

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Originally Posted by Being

How is this even legal? Or did they just not care about prosecuting anyone? And shouldn't they be prosecuted for invading the privacy of thousands of innocent people using these things? I mean, how did they make sure they only listened to criminals?

Can You Hear Me Now? Loud and Clear All You Criminals

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Honestly, how many innocent people do you really think paid $1000-$2000 for a "phone" that only sent messages, distorted voices and took video, that they could only buy via the black market after being vouch for by an existing and approved criminal?

Interestingly, around 20% of those 800 are based in Sweden. I dunno how the Encrochat organized crime prosecutions have gone so far, but I think this particular batch won't have much of a privacy defense.

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Originally Posted by Being

How is this even legal? Or did they just not care about prosecuting anyone? And shouldn't they be prosecuted for invading the privacy of thousands of innocent people using these things? I mean, how did they make sure they only listened to criminals?

Can You Hear Me Now? Loud and Clear All You Criminals

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By US law, it's legal as long as you don't spy on Americans (which the FBI didn't, they let other people do that) or have a warrant. I think that the evidence is still admissable though IANAL.

As OG said this was not your standard encrypted messaging system a la Signal. It was built and spread specifically for a criminal audience.

It is a great catch and a great infiltration of criminal networks.

And as wiggin (effectively) said AFAIK its merely nowadays a polite fiction that the US Federal Agencies don't spy on Americans. Technically the FBI don't, but there's nothing stopping GCHQ and others from doing so - and intelligence gathered by GCHQ can legally be shared with the Feds and vice-versa via the Five Eyes arrangements.

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Originally Posted by BluntHorse

I wonder how they decided it was time to swoop in and expose the fact that the network was run by the FBI.

Perhaps they could have grown the adoption of the handsets for a few more years, understood international OCG infrastructure a bit better before cracking down.

Perhaps they could have just used the intelligence and not revealed the nature of their compromised devices, and instead, feeding the criminals lies as to how they got caught. That would have screwed with the criminal's heads a bit more, whilst allowing the capture of more criminals.

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Believe the arrests were made a few weeks ago; a Swedish reporter Tweeted about it, anyway. Guessing this additional info has come to light because prosecuting authorities in most countries have to be upfront about the evidence and its provenance, so that defendants can mount an adequate defense.

Ah, I was mistaken, he only teased the info about the operation.

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Originally Posted by BluntHorse

Strange. Are there no legal provisions in the various jurisdictions where these handsets were sold/used that prevents the admission of this type of evidence for fear that it could compromise other ongoing operations? I'm sure there are, as they get used in cases where a person is alleged to be a terrorist...

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Tbh I may be misremembering another recent encrypted chat sting... this is the third in a very short time. The present operation has already been successful in preventing a number of murders, and allowed authorities to confiscate a lot of valuable assets. One of the stated goals of the operation is (according to one source referring to a court doc I haven't read) to undermine criminals' trust and sense of safety. I presume the participating law enforcement authorities weighed their options carefully before moving ahead with the raids.

I wonder if there's any connection between this and last night's announcement of the FBI reclaiming millions in Bitcoin from the oil pipeline ransom. Funny coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Being

How is this even legal? Or did they just not care about prosecuting anyone? And shouldn't they be prosecuted for invading the privacy of thousands of innocent people using these things? I mean, how did they make sure they only listened to criminals?

Can You Hear Me Now? Loud and Clear All You Criminals

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If they listen criminals, they are police.
If they listen non criminals, they are creepy voyeurists.

I'd like to read the EULA that came with that message app.