No. You need a sign.
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No. You need a sign.
:haha::up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
It's not that (I don't think). I wasn't able to parse your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
What if you remove the unnecessary part between ()?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
"So, explain to me what this "99%" what I've been seeing is all about. If the consistent message (...) is anti-capitalism, how do you combine that with "We're the 99%" in any other way as: we're the 99% which are anti-capitalist?"
Ziggy, while I'm not certain I agree with anyone in this thread, I think your critique of Dread is wrong. There's two competing sets of claims that you're synthesizing into one. On the one side are the OWS people attempting to speak for the disenfranchisement they see of the so-called 99%. On the other side is Dread (and others) who see it as thinly veiled populism and anticorporate/anticapitalist sentiment. The OWS people obviously by and large would reject the label Dread's giving them, just as Dread rejects their claim to speak for 99% of the population. Clearly the solution to your apparent confusion/paradox is that the OWS guys don't think they are fundamentally anticapitalist, but that they are representing the vast majority of Americans, and Dread thinks they are fundamentally anticapitalist, but don't represent anyone other than a small fringe of Americans.
The truth is probably in between: The OWS protests are extremely unfocused, but clearly signify discontent in a portion (though hardly 99%) of the US population with the current state of affairs in our economy. Their goals are extremely varied, but a subset of that protest group (and the larger dissatisfied populace they are drawn from) undoubtedly is opposed to capitalism in principle.
I don't. But I was planning to drop it sooner, and am going to do so now, so it won't be polluting the thread any further. He can call it whatever the hell he wants to call it.Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
By the way, you are (close to) making the same point I was in that last sentence.
Besides, I don't think the 99% represents: we are the spokespersons of 99% of the people, but rather we are part of 99% who don't make what the top 1% makes. But again, there may be some who do actually believe to represent the 99%, because these things do attract loons by default. My main point is: it's too easy to dismiss it as anti-capitalist when there clearly are many different intentions there. Just as it was too easy to label the TEA party one way or another because that group was too heterogeneous as well.
Actually, they consistently claim that they represent the 99%.
"We are the 99%" does not sound to me like someone saying they're a subset of a larger population, a subset that happens to have a particular view that's hostile of Wall Street, which others in the greater population may or may not share. What it is, actually, is an attempt to frame opposition to practices *or abuses* that are commonly correlated with Wall Street in class-warfare terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Republicans gave themselves that name. Maybe some OWS call themselves Rockefeller Republicans or Reagan Democrats, there are undoubtedly some calling themselves anti-capitalists, even though we don't have a pure capitalism economy. I'd wager most are protesting crony-capitalsim, and that would include folks like you who don't like public unions pulling strings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Whether they "label" themselves Occupy Wall Street or The 99%, it's to include anyone who's angry at power and money concentrated at the top percent; economic inequalities, a wrecked economy, disillusionment with both political parties and partisan politics, millions of dollars spent to "elect" lawmakers, special interest and lobbyist power, the legislative revolving door, a Do-Nothing congress more concerned with their re-election than governing, two Wars, losing track of billions of dollars to Iraq*, questions about Federal Reserve's interventions, propping up zombie banks**....on and on.
* http://www.cnbc.com/id/43487056
** http://www.cnbc.com/id/45027309
Verbal diarrhea at its finest.
Loki trolling again, how surprising. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
From the CBO. Figure 1 graph, Growth in Real After-Tax Income from 1979 to 2007, highest quintile = 1%.
Everyone else is the remaining 99%, obviously. And that's not including the after-math of 2008 with the loss millions of jobs and labor income. Some good info about different taxes and transfers, C corps and S corps, and assigning value to Health Insurance.
Growth in the financial sector was faster/greater than medicine and law. I didn't notice a mention of "bubbles", but it does look like one massive 20-30 year asset bubble in the financial industry. NYC and suburban Connecticut can probably confirm that, as their tax revenue grew while Wall Street and Bank profits grew.
Will be interesting to see what happens when bank tellers and low-level Wall St. workers get canned by the thousands. As reported in other news, cutting those employee expenses will make their bottom line look better....so they can continue to pay massive salaries and bonii to the wizards of investment banking, and maybe (just maybe) give their shareholders a dividend to keep up with inflation.
I've read some truly disgusting and pathetic things coming out of "Wall Street". The 27 year old trader who made $500,000 last year, and is worried that Regulation will cut into his income---how will he afford living in NYC and sending his kid to private school on anything less? :rolleyes: The youngish worker trying to save but being charged $35 for not keeping a $5,000 minimum bank balance. The employed people without employee benefits, but not being able to afford health insurance, and can't get their mortgage re-financed, either. :sour:
Tumblr has a plethora of poignantly hand-written notes from the 99%. For the younger crowd, most of it seems to center around student debt and not having health insurance. HS students working to help support their unemployed/underemployed parent(s) and worried about losing Medicaid or CHIPs when they turn 18. Not qualifying for college student aid (because their single parent "makes too much money" at $40,000/year), unable to secure college grants or scholarships. Scared of graduating with $50,000+ of student debt (that takes forever to pay off, if they can only find part-time jobs that aren't even in their degree field).
The over 30 group includes those who've served in Iraq or Afghanistan, returned home to find unemployment and housing they can't afford, highly educated and qualified people (even in IT, healthcare, and education) who can't find a job in their field, teachers working at substitute wages with no benefits. The over 50 people who are laid off are pretty much screwed, at the same time they still have dependent children...and now an ill, dependent parent, too. Medical debt is a recurring theme, even more than underwater mortgage debt.
Student debt, medical debt, mortgage debt. College degrees that don't mean jobs, health insurance that doesn't mean healthcare, housing debt with no equity means losing a home. Swallowing the middle class, suffocating the American Dream. :(
http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
It angered me to realize that one year after their reckless and fraudulent trading wreaked havoc on the economy, financial speculators were paying themselves one-year bonuses that amounted to my entire accumulated salary in 18 years of teaching.
Come on GGT, you have to pay these people just to participate, otherwise there wouldn't be as many willing participants.
Well, there is some Long Island couple trying to trademark the term "Occupy Wall Street". And Forbes.com has blocked their web site search from recognizing anything related to "Occupy". So, the American Way, huh. :bulb:
Okay, I've tried to be good and ignore it - hoped against all hope that you'd rectify your evil ways - but I can't stay silent any longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
The plural of bonus is bonuses. :mad:
Bonii? :think:
Pronounced, Bone-ee-eye ... ?
Never heard of such ridiculousnessnessness.
~
Meanwhile, London OWS copycatters have managed to shut down one of London's most prominent landmarks, St Paul's Cathedral, which has closed its doors for the first time since WWII. :sour:
That's right you idiots, shut down top tourist attractions, put a bigger drain on the economy you're trying to 'save'.Quote:
St Paul’s Cathedral is set to be closed for the first time since the second world war due to the health and safety concerns resulting from the the anti-capitalist protest outside Sir Christopher Wren’s 17th century masterpiece.
Poor sanitation at the camp’s temporary toilets, sub-par hygiene standards in the kitchen and general fire concerns from the closely packed tents all left St Paul’s with no choice but to close its doors until further notice, the Right Reverend Graeme Knowles, the dean, said on Friday.
“I am asking the protesters to recognise the huge issues facing us at this time and asking them to leave the vicinity of the building so that the cathedral can reopen as soon as possible,” said Mr Knowles, who added that it costs £20,000 a day just to maintain the building.
The protesters said they had no plans to leave the site, and so the cathedral is likely to remain closed for an extended period.
St Paul’s is in the top 10 of UK visitor attractions and draws more than 1.9m worshippers, pilgrims and tourists a year.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...St-Pau-007.jpg
:p It's an old joke that goes back a long way, to Atarii threads. Virii, penii, bonii. Not sure how it started, maybe plural of iris (irides) or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
Sorry, it's probably time to let that go, especially if it's not understood as the play on words it meant at the time.
I meant traders and hedge fund managers and the like. Stop saying bonii :oQuote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Kind of ironic that New York's Zuccotti park decided the opposite. I wonder if it's because it's become somewhat of a tourist attraction in NYC, bringing business to local vendors?Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
It's a shame that even renting a Porta-Potty means applying for a license permit, and no one wants to put their own name, or any group name on that permit...because the city might hold them liable for not having enough Porta-Potties, that also require hand-washing stations/handicapped accessible units, etc. :confused:
In the last couple of days, it seems as if the London protests too have become somewhat of a tourist attraction.
And this country certainly is overly zealous when it comes to Health & Safety. I'd think St Paul's and the protesters (and the HSE - Health & Safety Executive) could come to some acceptable arrangement to allow it to open.
St Paul's is losing £16000 - £20,000 a day in revenue while its closed, and it gets not a penny of support from the government. It cannot remain closed for long.
Maybe the Right Reverend Graeme Knowles could take his pansy ass down a few notches?
Relevant?
http://the53.tumblr.com/
Don't know about the current ones, but when that first came around, the early ones were photoshopped from stock photos.
Is the "you" being addressed the 1% or the remaining 46%?
As far as I can tell, there's only one that has been found to be that, and it was removed. You can disagree with them (I personally find issue with what many of them say), but it does speak to the fact that many of the so-called '99%' resent being grouped in with the OWS movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
The '53%' is the rough percentage of Americans who pay net income tax. They are referring to the other 47% who are often portrayed in the conservative media as freeloaders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
You mean like the corp of jackbooted corporate wannabes on this forum who are constantly strangling its People's Voice, like Loki or I?Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
If this is indeed the case, and it might well be, it's loony. I think I was projecting how I'd intend it. ('s not English is it?)Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
Beside my point anyway.
A two term Iraq vet is in critical condition because an Oakland police officer shot him in the head at the Occupy Oakland Protest. That sure as fuck isn't going to help matters.
Zing!Quote:
Nan Terrie learned an expensive lesson last week about the importance of property rights. "Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment," the 18-year-old protester told the New York Post. "I had my Mac stolen—that was like $5,500." Why? Because she left it in a public place, amid a crowd demanding the redistribution of wealth. Imagine that.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...566766026.html
"I sincerely believe... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies ...”
Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816. ME 15:23
http://www.princeton.edu/~reinhard/p...ING_CRISIS.pdf
:haha: :sour: