Public opinion is turning against the Brits anyway.
Printable View
Public opinion is turning against the Brits anyway.
Isn't that like telling US voters to shut the fuck up and bend over, because the political establishment/elite has already decided how things will go? And isn't that what fed the whole anti-establishment movement to begin with?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
No that's not what he said at all.
Do voters have an active and direct role in who gets elected? I think so, maybe you disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Does Rand, Hazir, or anyone else on this forum have any active or direct role to play in the negotiations on Brexit? No, not in the slightest, unless I am seriously misinformed as to people's general occupations.
So it would not be like telling US voters to shut up and bend over, no.
Fuzzy said peoples' opinions will have zero effect on the negotiations. That can only be right if the negotiators willingly ignore the will (and consent) of the voter, but I don't think that will happen. If anything, the "ruling class" or "political elite" has been surprised that the voting electorate is unhappy with their leadership, and demanded something else. Teresa May's first speech as PM was right along those lines...
Rand had a direct role in the Brexit vote because he's British....but the only reason that became an important political vote was because PM Cameron put that up for a referendum vote. Is that populism or democracy or parliamentary discretion?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
I don't know how the UK (or EU) decides voter registration, or how they fund their elections, but I do know the US is rife with politically corrupted gerrymandering. We have different systems and processes, but I'm not so sure whose process is working best for the electorate. Right now it seems the UK is doing a better job at representing its voting majority, even though plenty of academics think they're making a mistake.
I already started writing emails to MP's of the party i voted for in previous Elections that if there is any truth to that rumour I will let that weigh heavy on the way I cast my vote at the elections in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Well, I'm glad your vote has impact, Hazir. In the US.....people are wondering if voting means anything if the political class has already decided the outcome. So we have protests, but the political/ruling class just views that as a temporary, pesky messaging problem. They don't put the complaints and protests together to see that the majority of voters are angry, and fed up with both parties, or politics as usual. They've even given up on people who don't vote, or haven't voted for years. Well, except the Trump campaign that's targeted those groups. I'm not sure the pollsters have a bead on this election....they didn't do such a good job in the primaries.
That's not what I said, actually. "you will have absolutely zero effect on the negotiations. . . no matter what you post here." Referring to the way certain posters were acting like they (the posters) had to take a "hardline stance" for negotiation purposes, when what they were doing was discussing it as observers.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Well, NOTHING that's posted here matters much, in the grand scheme of things. We're all observers in that sense....and even when we argue amongst ourselves it doesn't doesn't amount to much, really. :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
glad to see you two are finally almost in agreement sortakindamaybe.
Wraith, can you check to see if any lurkers have IPs registered in Brussels?
It's also not what we said. Good thing Fuzzy is prancing around on his high horse once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-in-months-a/Quote:
Jean-Claude Juncker admits Brexit talks cannot begin in months as there is 'no deadline' for Britain to invoke Article 50
In a softening of his earlier demand for Britain to open formal talks within days or weeks, the EU chief acknowledged that there is no deadline as only Britain can invoke Article 50, triggering immediate exit negotiations.
So, a French negotiator for the EC and a Belgian one for the Council.Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
A French negotiator who won't even take up his post in the EC until October. Yes such an urgent hurry :haha:
Something tells me that the talk of the EU invoking Article 7 against the UK will never materialise to anything, given that today the EU Commission is impotently threatening Poland with Article 7.
Too bad that Article 7 requires unanimity. You can't invoke it against two nations simultaneously unless one willingly agrees to the other being sanctioned. Whoops.
It also means nobody is answering the phone. The countries sanctions are imposed upon don't get to vote either wrt article 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
No, it means they realise nobody is dialling the phone number yet. Besides the real negotiations have already begun with the people that matter like Merkel.
In order to impose sanctions you need unanimity from the other nations. You can't get unanimity on Poland unless the UK votes for it, you can't get unanimity for the UK unless Poland votes for it. Oh well ...
Not if both are subjects. Then neither has a vote :)
So the Prime Minister's tour of European capitals, beginning discussions about Brexit without having actually invoked A50 seems to be continuing uninterrupted. No need to answer the phone, when you're already there in person.
Glad to see both sides here addressing this like mature and sensible adults seeking the best way forward, rather than throwing toys out of the pram because an election didn't go the way you wanted it to.
Sensible man there.Quote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36916836
The Slovakian PM said he had asked Mrs May "to dedicate a special level of attention to Slovak nationals and citizens who work currently in the UK" and said he hoped the UK would "redefine" and formulate "a vision of its relations with the EU" before triggering Article 50 - the formal process of leaving the EU.
Lol, I see we've moved from "negotiations" to "discussions".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...n-his-country/
He's indeed a very sensible man if racism is your thing. You must have already become desensitized to such bedfellows.
Lol. This is beginning to sound more and more like Trump expressing appreciation for Saddam, Putin etc :o
Where is the racism in that link? Islam isn't a race afterall it is a nasty medieval religion. Religion is not race.
Though I wasn't talking about that.
Rofl there should be a ban on Muslims entering Slovakia so that they don't build mosques everywhere :haha: only Christians should be allowed in, that's the kind of thing modern societies do :haha:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovakian PM aka douchebag aka RB's hero
Good to see you not pretending anymore, Rand.
Pretending what? That religion is a race?
I've been anti-medieval bullshit since before Community Chat even started.
Hey RB when are you going to vote to prevent Muslims from entering the UK?
I have no intention of doing or supporting that, I'd oppose that. Wouldn't be racist if someone did support it though given that "Muslim" is not a race.
I guess he's a good ally to have then.
Yeah, he really does sound like a sensible man :haha:
It's tragic. Not surprising, but tragic nevertheless.
Not as tragic as believers in medieval bullshit bringing their pre-Reformation religious violence into 21st century Europe.
Yeah, that's what all Muslims do. Must be why there have been a million terror attacks in Germany this year. And of course non-Muslims don't do bad things.
When minority groups are suffering discrimination or oppression, the thing to do is to quibble about terminology. This is definitely not a deflection tactic or anything like that.
More tragic.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Who said all Muslims are doing that? Unless you believe that all Christians "send their kids to special camps to have their gayness-inducing demons exorcized" or seriously say that "Satan buried dinosaur bones to make it look like the earth is more than 6000 years old" and if you don't why are you only asking that to me? I never said all Muslims do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
You think a politician determining their immigration policy is more tragic than children and adults being murdered and decapitated by religious zealots?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
I disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovakian PM aka douchebag aka RB's hero
Why wouldn't you vote for not allowing people adhering to a nasty medieval religion in?
So, when do you start banning Judism and Christianism? After all, that bullshit is even older than Islam...Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade