Angsty college students, obs
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Angsty college students, obs
Or if you ARE interested in the oil, contribute to the thread.
Being glib about a possible gusher through July, by saying OG and I will just mean a summer of angsty posts....:rolleyes:
The gulf marshlands were going to be destroyed anyway. You might have missed the significance of the occasional remark on the subsidence of the Gulf Coast, but that's not something we're going to be able to stop. Change happens, even ecologically.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Oh. I don't think I'm angsty about it. I'd like to see it stopped. I'd like to see the odds of this happening again reduced so low as to be nil. I'd like to see the responsible parties held accountable. But I'm not angsty. What's angsty mean in this context anyway? Is it just being used as a slur?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Yup, all the time. Over the next hundred years that coastline's going to get a shit load of change. This is nothing by comparison. Are you asking "why bother?" or "why fret?" Something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
BP says Top Kill now failed too.
"Why post hysterically." And posters can go on all they want about "we will never be able to clean it," but they're kinda missing the concept of "never".Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Totally called it
The Top Kill and Junk Shot failed. BP is going to try another "no one has tried this before" attempt by installing another version of their first failed dome; called a lower-marine riser package. After that they have nothing until the relief well is finished in August, the relief well that BP claimed was to expensive to build before a fuck up.
Congratulations, you "called" something that just about every expert called before you. And I love your continued glee at BP's failures.
Been busy all day, so I haven't been keeping tabs on the forums, but are we so dead today that this ended up being the best thread to troll in?
Do you care so much about making inane political points that you feel happy at a monumental environmental disaster?
Guess the last hint went over your head, but I still don't get where you are getting that I'm full of glee or happiness that BP is fucking up the body of water I live miles from :bulb:, but you're Loki, comprehension and discussion were never your selling points.
http://imgur.com/LcqLa.jpg http://imgur.com/0Ju6g.jpg
So you're simultaneously denying that you're happy about the situation because it allows you to bash a major corporation and are showing glee from bashing the corporation. :bulb:
Pointing out how unprepared, and dishonest, BP has been from the start means I'm happy they fucked up?
Thats a whole new level of surreal for you Loki.
Still not seeing where you're getting the glee from.
http://imgur.com/FE1rS.jpg
This is me, being totally happy, while passing on this link.
Edit after catching up on today's posting:
Holy shit, you attacked GGT in the same way; can't attack the point, attack the party, eh Loki?
Does this mean you've never seen happinessQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
A) You've yet to show that BP is any worse than other companies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
B) I think we get the point already.
Still not related to the thread, same as the first time you tried this derail. This also borders on Glenn Beck style reasoning since what you're requesting isn't one good company, but that all other companies aren't bad :haha: You going to attack the intelligence of my children now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
then I guess this thread ain't for you any more :noob:Quote:
B) I think we get the point already.
You and Loki seem to have a really low threshold for what you consider hysterical or angsty.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
The Gulf coast loses shoreline and marshes every year, from natural and/or man-made events. Restoring marshes is harder than keeping them safe from oil-ruin. What makes you say the marshes would be destroyed "anyway"?
Would you say the same if several million gallons of oil threatened San Francisco Bay?
If your students jump off a bridge, will you jump too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
If students jump off a bridge every day in one area and don't do it at all in another, would it be equally newsworthy if there was a jump in each area?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...tachment-1.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Regarding emotions....
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/op...30dowd.html?hpQuote:
Once More, With Feeling
By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: May 29, 2010
President Spock’s behavior is illogical.
Once more, he has willfully and inexplicably resisted fulfilling a signal part of his job: being a prism in moments of fear and pride, reflecting what Americans feel so they know he gets it.
“This president needs to tell BP, ’I’m your daddy,’ “ scolded James Carville, a New Orleans resident, as he called Barack Obama’s response to Louisiana’s new watery heartbreak “lackadaisical.”
At a press conference, Obama said Malia had asked him, as he shaved, “Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy?” (That hole should be plugged with a junk-shot of Glenn Beck, who crudely mocked the adorable Malia.) Oddly, the good father who wrote so poignantly about growing up without a daddy scorns the paternal aspect of the presidency.
In the campaign, Obama’s fight flagged to the point that his donors openly upbraided him. In the Oval, he waited too long to express outrage and offer leadership on A.I.G., the banks, the bonuses, the job loss and mortgage fears, the Christmas underwear bomber, the death panel scare tactics, the ugly name-calling of Tea Party protesters.
Too often it feels as though Barry is watching from a balcony, reluctant to enter the fray until the clamor of the crowd forces him to come down. The pattern is perverse. The man whose presidency is rooted in his ability to inspire withholds that inspiration when it is most needed.
Oblivious to warnings about Osama hitting the U.S. and Katrina hitting New Orleans, W. often seemed more absorbed in workouts than work. Obama, by contrast, does his homework; he conveys a rare and impressive grasp of difficult subjects when he at last deigns to talk to the news media and reassure those whose lives are overturned by disaster.
The wound-tight, travel-light Obama has a distaste for the adversarial and the random. But if you stick too rigidly to a No Drama rule in the White House, you risk keeping reality at bay. Presidencies are always about crisis management.
Obama invented himself against all odds and repeated parental abandonment, and he worked hard to regiment his emotions. But now that can come across as imperviousness and inflexibility. He wants to run the agenda; he doesn’t want the agenda to run him. Once you become president, though, there’s no way to predict what your crises will be.
F.D.R. achieved greatness not by means of imposing his temperament and intellect on the world but by reacting to what the world threw at him.
For five weeks, it looked as though Obama considered the gushing that became the worst oil spill in U.S. history a distraction, like a fire alarm going off in the middle of a law seminar he was teaching. He’ll deal with it, but he’s annoyed because it’s not on his syllabus.
Even if Obama doesn’t watch “Treme” on HBO, it’s strange that he would not have a more spontaneous emotional response to another horrendous hit for Louisiana, with residents and lawmakers crying on the news and dead pelicans washing up on shore. But then, he didn’t make his first-ever visit to New Orleans until nearly a year after Katrina hit. “I never had occasion to be here,” he told The Times’s Jeff Zeleny, then at The Chicago Tribune.
Just as President Clinton once protested to reporters that he was still “relevant,” President Obama had to protest to reporters last week that he has feelings.
He seemed to tune out a bit after the exhausting battle over health care, with the air of someone who says to himself: “Oh, man, that was a heavy lift. I’m taking a break.”
He’s spending the holiday weekend in Chicago when he should be commemorating Memorial Day here with the families of troops killed in battle and with veterans at Arlington Cemetery.
Republican senators who had a contentious lunch with the president last week described him as whiny, thin-skinned and in over his head, and there was extreme Democratic angst at the White House’s dilatory and deferential attitude on the spill.
Even more than with the greedy financiers and arrogant carmakers, it was important to offend and slap back the deceptive malefactors at BP.
Obama and top aides who believe in his divinity make a mistake to dismiss complaints of his aloofness as Washington white noise. He treats the press as a nuisance rather than examining his own inability to encapsulate Americans’ feelings.
“The media may get tired of the story, but we will not,” he told Gulf Coast residents when he visited on Friday. Actually, if it weren’t for the media, the president would probably never have woken up from his torpor and flown down there.
Instead of getting Bill Clinton to offer Joe Sestak a job, Obama should be offering Clinton one. Bill would certainly know how to gush at a gusher gone haywire. Let him resume a cameo role as Feeler in Chief. The post is open.
You're now taking your political advice from Carville and Dowd?
You're now saying that posting an op-ed is "taking political advice"? :donkey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Maybe the murmurs of putting this endeavor under military control is something you'd rather comment about. Or are you just trolling?
The military has a solution to this problem? Or are you begging for a junta for the second time in two days?
Ah, so you ARE just trolling. :popcorn:
So are you going to tell us what good involving the military will bring, other than screwing up civil-military relations? Or do you just care about change for the sake of change again?
Bummer. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by coinich
Who's hysterical? And strictly speaking, it's true we'll never be able to clean it. That doesn't mean the gulf will never be clean again though. :) But in the short to medium term, the gulf's going to be pretty fucked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
Lok's never struck me as the happy type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
Every marshy coastline in the world's going to be drowned in the next 50 years +/- and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Lets play a game. Just how badly did BP's last 2 attempts fail?
Spoiler:
Now who wants to guess where all those wasted materials are going to end up? :noob:
As your wanking material?
Yeah, it was my idea to bring in the military for containment and clean-up. Then Gen. Honore, a few senators and parish presidents got wind of it, the media picked it up and ran some stories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
FFS Loki :rolleyes:
A) Why should the military be doing this?
B) What can the military do that BP can't?
Military = Coast Guard, National Guard, Army Corps of Engineers. Add some Navy for coordination of skimmer ships and filtering tankers, to be "in charge" of all the sea traffic that will grow with the spill. Assist in building those sand berms that Bobby Jindal wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
BP may have scientists and engineers for the rig itelf, but they're not experts in containment or clean-up. Let alone coordinating something on this massive scale. Over 60,000 square miles of federal waters are affected.
But this is just what I've read.
Don't know if I would go that far, but BP has shown its putting the dollar before safety and the environment. Maybe if someone else had stepped in with a blank check and the ability to send BP the bill, we would have seen a quicker resolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Quote:
Thing One and Thing Two
Have No Fear. BP Is Here.
By PETER JEFFREY
We looked all around us
And what did we see?
We saw a big mess
And a helpful BP.
"Don't be sad," said BP.
"Don't be mad. Have no fear.
I will suck it all up
Once I build the right gear."
Then he left for two weeks
And came back with a box.
"Look at this!" said BP
As he pulled up his socks.
"In this box are two things,
I will show to you now.
They will clean up this mess,"
Said BP with a bow.
A big dome popped out
And a "top hat" as well
And the insides of golf balls
And garbage. The smell!
"I know it is odd,"
Said BP, "all this goo.
But I've got some good tricks.
I will show them to you."
Then he balanced a berm
On the tip of his nose
And rode on a robot
Deep down where it flows.
"Gosh," said our fish,
"Does he know what he's doing?
He is the reason
This bad goo is gooing!
I knew this would happen.
Won't Mother be mad."
And back came BP,
His dome clogged with shad.
"My net!" BP said.
"My net's a good bet.
I bet with my net
I can get that stuff yet."
Our fish said, "Get out!
We do not need more trouble."
"But I like to be here,"
Said BP. "Try a bubble?"
The lesson seems clear
From the stern to the prow.
It is fun to have fun
But you have to know how.
:haha:Loki:haha:
Fixing something like this may indeed have been something we'd like to get the Army Corps of Engineers involved in, except I suspect they're not going to be any better, and probably worse, than other organizations at operating that deep. Just not the sort of environment they'd ever be expected to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
GGT's pretty much always hysterical.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Ok, but even ignoring your projected sea level rise, that marshy coastline would still be screwed, because of how fast it's sinking.Quote:
Every marshy coastline in the world's going to be drowned in the next 50 years +/- and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.
As you say, I'm fairly sure BP is in a better position to coordinate this operation than the Army Corps of Engineers (as well as having more qualified personnel at hand), and if the government had better ideas about solving this than BP, presumably they would have offered them to BP by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
"Adm. Thad Allen, the Coast Guard commandant who has been overseeing the government’s response to the disaster, told a talk-show host the same day that only BP had the means to deal with the leaking well a mile below the sea. “They are necessarily the modality by which this is going to be solved,” he said."
Everyone was suddenly a self-appointed expert. A White House official fumed: “[New York Times columnist] Bob Herbert says we should get our best and brightest down there. Well, guess what? They were down there three weeks ago! [Sen.] Bill Nelson [of Florida] says we should put the military in charge. Unless I missed something, the Coast Guard is part of the military.”
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/29/b...er-rising.html
Different "ops".
One is fixing the leak itself, where the scientists and equipment who are in the oil industry should focus. There are other deep water drilling experts besides BP who've offered advice (including Shell) but been turned down.
The other operation is collecting/containing the oil in the water, and protecting wildlife-wetlands-shorelines. BP can't just hire hundreds of people, give them rakes and bags, and send them out there for a photo op. News reports claim they're damaging things with that approach, flattening dunes with vehicles, mangling grasses with improperly laid boom, not tracking dead animals, tossing contaminated haz mat suits into restaurant dumpsters, etc.
BP also didn't conduct any pre-dispersant soil or water samples, to have a baseline comparison after spraying and dumping Corexit in thousands of gallons. BP has also denied underwater oil plumes, even though several university research vessels, manned with scientists, have all concluded they exist. For a company to say "it's all surface oil" means their containment and clean-up effort is gonna be fucked up.
US Navy has done oil retrieval in the Persian Gulf, they have the vessels and skills. They could also use those centrifuge tankers (Kevin Costner's venture, go figure) with skimmers and supertankers to clean the water, before it even reaches shore. The Navy's all-hands-on-deck attitude, and streamlined command structure, would be a good thing. IMO.
Didn't the EPA already provide its suggestions for better and less toxic dispersants, only to have BP tell them to buzz off because BP wasn't double dipping in the other companies?