They dropped the ball on closing for 40F weather this time.
My kids are finally on their way home from yesterday's school day.
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They dropped the ball on closing for 40F weather this time.
My kids are finally on their way home from yesterday's school day.
And now it's official, closed immediately (in spite of 6 months of bands booked ahead that have now all been cancelled). I guess I'm lucky I got to see the UK subs last thursday, at least I had a good last time there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
Some pictures from the 'we're closing' newsletter: (UK subs, that I saw last thursday, is the third one down)
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_38504626...6556037n_1.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_30635420...771247340n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_41766048...075394511n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_gentleme...ona1204225.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_42086529...387361573n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_10002084...741726422n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_29409231...245574047n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_37848224...143798144n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_48302929...291302570n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_20130405mollygene008.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_60231828...198149385n.jpg
http://img.ymlp.com/rambler_42891525...106711512n.jpg
RIP
Eh, it depends a bit, if it's very rare, chances are they aren't prepared for it, roads won't get cleaned properly, and it might not be safe for school buses to drive, which is a good reason to close schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
southerns cant drive worth a shit on a good day, much less in snow. if the teachers wont brave it, no point in forcing the kids.
had a similar issue in 04-05 when the hurricanes came through. College opened back up immediately, even though the main road to the school was still flooded and a lot of students didn't have power or water yet.
a good amount of bitching was involved, and that got a whole lot worse when everyone got to school to discover doors with post-it notes announcing the class was cancelled cause the teacher wasn't coming in.
The temperature is above freezing; the snow doesn't accumulate. And driving with perhaps a quarter of an inch of snow on the road? It doesn't actually make a difference...I've come across the same issue in England. Really, a bit of snow isn't going to make you lose control of your car, people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
They finally closed the schools (though not the college) here in Cornfield USA because it was -30C (including wind chilll) and they didn't want kids to freeze while waiting for the school bus.
The temperature was not above freezing, and there was a nice sheet of ice involved (that usually happens with snow here, our weather variability is such that it can be 60F one day, and snowing and not above freezing the next). We don't have snow tires and such, of course. So sure, we should be better equipped to deal with something that happens so infrequently.
The kids made it home thanks to the kindness of a friend of a friend. There are still a few kids stuck at the school.
Well I assumed 40F would be the day's high, which means that at night it's freezing, and early in the morning when you go to school you might have ice on the roads.
On a side note, when I was in a car crash during snow, there wasn't that much snow - the road just hadn't been cleared so it was slippery as fuck. Granted, that was more like 1-2 inches of snow.
What I don't understand is all of the pictures of people 'forced' off the road when there doesn't look to be more than an inch of snow, if that. This past weekend, I drove to upper NH in a 'snowstorm' that was just as bad (probably worse), but I moseyed along at 65 mph and was fine, as was the rest of traffic. Sure, we did get a bit more plowing/salt, but to be honest it wasn't much. A traction control system, antilock brakes, and careful driving are all that's really necessary with such a small dusting. It wasn't fun, and I certainly drove slower than normal, but it was hardly 'OMG I'm stranded' bad.
The problem here was more with icing than snow, wiggin. Then as people got stuck in the gridlock and the salt/gravel/sand trucks couldn't get through, the problems multiplied. I'm sure there were problems of people driving badly as well, but I have no clue if most cars come with any traction control systems. Unfortunately, with the volume of traffic trying to get back to the suburbs once the accidents start it gets ridiculous in the best of circumstances. Side roads are just as bad, if not worse.
I don't think things were handled well, but I'm not sure it's reasonable to think that they should be. The part that really infuriates me is that interviews with the governor, state officials, and the Atlanta mayor have involved them pretending like they've performed well, that there have not been problems.
All the kids in the state are home now, at least.
So were they stuck in school over night?
My kids were, along with quite a few others in the state. I also have a few choice words about the way our school system handled it, but I absolutely can not complain about our actual school.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/iced-in...schools/nc58R/
Was there absolutely no contingency plans made for snow? I mean, it does snow in the south every so often. :bulb:
http://www.11alive.com/
http://www.wsbtv.com/
That should tell you everything you want to know.
As for our school system, it was one of the ones that did do an early release - 2 hours early. The elementary school kids all got home safely, left their schools about 12:15ish on buses. Then the busses picked up high schoolers - and at this time the roads were getting slippery, wrecks were happening, traffic on side roads was backing up. Middle schools released at 2:30 (my driveway was already sufficiently iced that I'd have not wanted to try to get down it), but there were very few buses actually at the schools to pick up. Around 2:50 I got a message saying that buses were running behind, and that if we could pick up kids we could, but that the buses would continue running. A couple of neighborhood kids got their parents to call them in permission to walk then, mine did not. That text at 2:50 was the last word I heard from the school district until 9:30. About 5 his parapro called me, told me that he didn't know if buses were still able to get through at all, and wanted to know if I had any way to get there at all. Miss Priss called me at 6, asking the same thing. School fed them, opened up the gym, art room, music rooms, computer labs, etc. to keep all the kids entertained, made snacks, and any time parents could make it into the school to pick up a child they'd find others from the same neighborhood and get permission for those kids to ride. I talked to school administrators, his parapro again, and the band director over the course of the evening - as well as both kids whenever they wanted to call (I had her phone, it was acting screwy so I took it to the phone store yesterday morning).
They managed to have air mattresses and blankets for the ones who wound up having to stay the night. This morning they were still trying to be able to get them home on buses, but thanks to the friend of a friend mine made it to the front of the neighborhood around 11. Had to walk from there, but they were alright with that.
Oh, and that message from the school system at 9:30? They were saying that they were still busing children home.
TC and ABS have been standard on US cars for ~10 years now. Its not required, but I'm not aware of a car that doesn't include it. It was a sad day in history when even the Viper moved over to those safety systems in 95.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
They don't do jack shit if you already have momentum on an inch of ice. In fact ABS will cause longer stopping distances if the tires can't grip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
*shrugs* I've got an 8 year old cheap car and traction control came standard (which, anyways, is more useful than ABS for driving on ice). Sure, if the entire road is a perfect sheet of ice it won't help you much, but that's not really how most snowfalls work, no? Traction control and ABS handle ice patches and slush pretty well for a sufficiently careful driver. Regardless, I assume that there must have been more dire conditions than the photos given lolli's explanation above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
TC is typically a function of ABS.
ABS provides subpar braking on slush, gravel, ice or any surface where the tire can't make continued contact with a solid surface. Handling is a toss up, largely dependent on the driver, and TC is well known to cause over corrective reactions on patchy ice.
AWD is by far the best way to go.
I never really understood why people said that. TC (and advanced variants) certainly use the ABS system, but they also use the powertrain computer to control engine torque et al. They're different, but overlapping, technologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Obviously AWD is better than anything else, but it's hardly standard in the way that various forms of traction control are. And while I have found that getting a car unstuck from snow isn't helped by TC, it definitely helps control of a moving vehicle in typical snowy conditions. In fact, I spent three hours just this weekend appreciating the value of the system.Quote:
ABS provides subpar braking on slush, gravel, ice or any surface where the tire can't make continued contact with a solid surface. Handling is a toss up, largely dependent on the driver, and TC is well known to cause over corrective reactions on patchy ice.
AWD is by far the best way to go.
Wow, what a mess! The problem was ice, not snow, and lots of 18 wheelers jack-knifed across the highway.....and everyone leaving work/school at the same time.
It doesn't sound like it was "handled" well at all, Lolli. Those events need heavy coordination between cities, counties, schools, state agencies -- especially for 'rare' events. The officials giving press conferences aren't taking responsibility at all, even blaming National Weather Service and meteorologist for giving bad forecasts. :mong:
I'm not sure why people are discussing traction control, anti-lock brakes, or all-wheel steering in personal vehicles.....when big-rig trucks seemed to cause the biggest traffic problems. It only takes one 18 wheeler jack-knifing across 3 lanes of traffic, to shut down an entire highway, and jam passenger traffic for miles. If trucks are carrying a dangerous chemical, the problems and risks are magnified.
Interventions should be based on "worst-case-scenario", anticipated in advance. That's why we have Disaster Planning, and not just Disaster Response. If roadway icing can be so destructive and paralyzing in the south.....I don't want to think about how they'd handle anything more dangerous and dire.
:sour:
Actually, winter tyres are reckoned to provide better overall grip in icy conditions on a 2wd car than a 4wd with regular tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
4wd with winter tyres is your best bet overall.
4WD with winter tyres > 2WD with winter tyres > 4WD with regular tyres > 2WD with regular tyres
On European cars at least, certainly German ones, specifications normally list DSC or DTC as separate from ABS.Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
DSC or DTC (Dynamic Stability or Traction Control) is normally a combination of TC, CBC (Cornering Braking Control - which is where the OBC will apply the brakes on any one of the four wheels, or any combination thereof, if it senses undue yaw or slippage), and/or dynamic dampening/suspension (which is where the OBC will stiffen any of the four dampeners and/or suspension units to keep the car level if the OBC senses undue roll or pitch)
ABS is not normally listed as a component of such systems.
I've found that either switching DSC to intermediate (which 'lessens' TC but doesn't disable it, and leaves CBC intact), or switching it off entirely, was the only way I could move at all in snowy conditions. Heavy RWD German cars with wide rear tyres are abominable in the snow, by far the worst of any car to be in, and I've spent a number of snowy days over the years finding what works and what doesn't. Car in Normal mode with DSC fully enabled; I was completely unable to move.Quote:
And while I have found that getting a car unstuck from snow isn't helped by TC, it definitely helps control of a moving vehicle in typical snowy conditions. In fact, I spent three hours just this weekend appreciating the value of the system.
Feathering the throttle and feeling the grip/slip level myself was the best way I found of progressing. The OBC is just not cut out for it.
Also, momentum is key. If I come to a stop the chances of moving off again are limited. If I come to a stop on any kind of upward incline, moving off at all is nigh on impossible. Leave a huuuuuuge gap to traffic in front - particularly on an incline. If that traffic comes to a stop and you're right behind, then you stop and lose momentum.
I spent one long night stuck on a jammed motorway barely moving for 13 or 14 hours in a blizzard. It became a bit of a joke between myself and my partner that the route was a German graveyard; there were abandoned BMWs, Mercedes and Porsches littering the side of the road, as the drivers had become stuck and unable to move. I was in a big 5 Series with regular tyres at the time but got us home safely by using these techniques.
Quite different to the times I've rented small hatchbacks on ski trips in the Alps. Winter tyres on small narrow FWD wheels, I had few problems with grip, DSC or not.
Car geek? ;) I can get around in fairly horrible weather conditions with my little Toyota manual, because I've learned how to use the gears and steering, instead of the brakes. I bought some all-weather tires that work well in rain and snow....but driving in ICE is a different matter.
18 wheel trucks are an entirely different category. They either have to be equipped with tire chains, prohibited from inclines/declines, or removed from the roadway during certain weather conditions.
It messes with my groove....that these problems are treated as "flukes", even though they've been experienced more than once in recent times. "100 year storms" occurring every decade should raise some red flags.
I think OG's point is that regardless of the specification listing, most (all?) traction control systems use the hardware and computers of the ABS system. And it's true, they do, but they also use a number of other systems in the car, depending on their fanciness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
I think we're talking about different 'snowy conditions'. In a few inches of virgin snow, I'd completely agree with you, especially re: starting from a dead stop. But normally when I'm driving in snow, the roads are a mixture of wet/slushy pavement (where cars have been driving) or icy patches covered in a fine layer of fresh/blowing snow combined with larger accumulations on the edges/in between lanes. I've found that if you're already moving, the relatively dramatic differentials in handling from one part of the road to another can make DSC et al quite useful. Just my experience, though, and I'm driving a smallish FWD with all season tires.Quote:
I've found that either switching DSC to intermediate (which 'lessens' TC but doesn't disable it, and leaves CBC intact), or switching it off entirely, was the only way I could move at all in snowy conditions. Heavy RWD German cars with wide rear tyres are abominable in the snow, by far the worst of any car to be in, and I've spent a number of snowy days over the years finding what works and what doesn't. Car in Normal mode with DSC fully enabled; I was completely unable to move.
Feathering the throttle and feeling the grip/slip level myself was the best way I found of progressing. The OBC is just not cut out for it.
Also, momentum is key. If I come to a stop the chances of moving off again are limited. If I come to a stop on any kind of upward incline, moving off at all is nigh on impossible. Leave a huuuuuuge gap to traffic in front - particularly on an incline. If that traffic comes to a stop and you're right behind, then you stop and lose momentum.
I spent one long night stuck on a jammed motorway barely moving for 13 or 14 hours in a blizzard. It became a bit of a joke between myself and my partner that the route was a German graveyard; there were abandoned BMWs, Mercedes and Porsches littering the side of the road, as the drivers had become stuck and unable to move. I was in a big 5 Series with regular tyres at the time but got us home safely by using these techniques.
Quite different to the times I've rented small hatchbacks on ski trips in the Alps. Winter tyres on small narrow FWD wheels, I had few problems with grip, DSC or not.
Its the fact that you don't get TC without ABS. You disable ABS (which isn't possible without working over the car in some manner) you disable TC. However TC can be turned off via a button on the dash. I mentioned it originally because the combination of the two can and does cause driver error when they activate on surfaces that the driver seldom, if ever, has driven on. and both have downsides on certain surfaces like ice.Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/c...flame_melt_it/
The amount of people I know personally who believed this was something special and worthy of being up in arms about has been absolutely astounding.
and with that I'm going to freak out the kids.
Did kat move to Atlanta?
We're a poll-crazy society.
I'm confused about Georgia. Atlanta is like the 6th largest metro economy in the US. It's HQ for giants like CNN and Coca-Cola. It hosted a Summer Olympics! It sells itself as a World Class destination.....but falls into chaos and gridlock for days with one ice-event? The Governor sounds like a real yahoo, along with GEMA and other 'officials', in press conferences. Maybe I should have put this in the WTF thread. :mong: