2020 Democratic Primaries

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Originally Posted by Loki

You mean being angry because Bernie would lose according to rules he himself pushed for in 2016 and after Bernie spent months in 2016 urging superdelegates to make him the nominee despite getting a minority of the vote? Like I said, entitled privileged brats.

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So, what is the best way to resolve a contested convention, in your view?

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

I don't think so, so long as the boomers stop screwing over the millenials and as the millenials grow up and make something for themselves. Protecting the market economy doesn't mean much to someone who can't afford anything in the market economy.

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Randblade, you're pretty close to "getting it" here, but they only way that's going to happen is if boomers find a way to go back in time and unvote for the obliteration of social protections and market regulation.

The current problems aren't a consequence of the intrinsic character flaws of boomers, but an inevitable byproduct of the capitalist system in its current manifestation. Companies are under intense pressure from their investors to not only make a profit, but to make bigger profit than they made last year however beyond a certain point this isn't possible to do by expanding, since there is only a certain amount of a given good or service that is actually needed, so the only way to do is to get more for less. For employees, this means frozen wages, longer hours, less job security and worse conditions generally. For customers it means paying more and more for an increasingly inferior service, the US healthcare (I use this word advisedly) system being a prime example. Also, we will destroy the biosphere.

All this so guys like Bloomberg can have x15 more money than they could possibly spend in a human life time, rather than x1.5 times.

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Originally Posted by Wraith

Let's just say fuck 'em all to cover our bases.

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Now you're speaking my language.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Ok, so I think what will happen is Sanders will win a plurality but not a majority of delegates, and the convention will gift the nomination to Biden, resulting in some (this time, justifiably) very unhappy Bernie supporters, severely (but not terminally) harming Biden's chances in the General.

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If that happens, it wouldn't "severely (but not terminally) harm Biden's chances in the general. You might see that kind of drop in his popular vote count but you won't see it in the EC count. Where you would see it materially matter is the effect of reduced turnout on Congressional and state races.

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Because as far as these quote unquote "moderates" are concerned Fascism > Socialism.

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Since they'd be doing it because of their driving need to see Trump (your "Fascism) kicked out, that seems clearly untrue. Using your framework, the "correct" framing is that these quote unquote "moderates" think that as far as the swayable conservatives and independents are concerned Fascism > Socialism.

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Originally Posted by Wraith

Let's just say fuck 'em all to cover our bases.

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As Steely said earlier, we ended up with a very lackluster and uninspiring pool of candidates this cycle. I had intended to vote for Warren earlier this year, since Buttigieg has no experience, Biden is senile, Sanders actually IS a socialist, and I didn't know Klobuchar from a hole in the ground. Then I found myself thinking Klobuchar or Bloomberg. Now I'm wondering if I'm really going to be voting for Biden after all. I don't want to vote for Biden.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

All this so guys like Bloomberg can have x15 more money than they could possibly spend in a human life time, rather than x1.5 times.

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Just not sure Bloomberg's wealth is the most illustrative example here.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

Just not sure Bloomberg's wealth is the most illustrative example here.

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Seems pretty good to me. His net worth is more than the GDP of a medium sized city.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

As Steely said earlier, we ended up with a very lackluster and uninspiring pool of candidates this cycle. I had intended to vote for Warren earlier this year, since Buttigieg has no experience, Biden is senile, Sanders actually IS a socialist, and I didn't know Klobuchar from a hole in the ground. Then I found myself thinking Klobuchar or Bloomberg. Now I'm wondering if I'm really going to be voting for Biden after all. I don't want to vote for Biden.

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Biden is going to appoint competent establishment Democrats to all the vital positions. He's going to listen to their advice. He's not going make things worse (and maybe even make things a bit better). And that's not something I can say for his opponents.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

So, what is the best way to resolve a contested convention, in your view?

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The same way you "resolve" elections where no party gets 50%. Require the winner to have the support of 50% (i.e., coalition politics) of delegates.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Seems pretty good to me. His net worth is more than the GDP of a medium sized city.

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Good illustration of extreme inequality, but maybe not a great illustration of the dilemma of squeezing out infinite growth and profit from a less infinite market. Just doesn't seem like an accurate characterization of his core business, although he has no doubt invested - directly or indirectly - in many such businesses.

Klobuchar out: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...biden-n1147191

Twitter Link

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Originally Posted by Loki

The same way you "resolve" elections where no party gets 50%. Require the winner to have the support of 50% (i.e., coalition politics) of delegates.

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And in an election where a winner has got 50% from everyone elected but unelected representatives then take the winner below the 50% . . . what then?

So remarkably now blithering, dithering Biden who can't even finish a sentence is now the youngest person left in the race.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

And in an election where a winner has got 50% from everyone elected but unelected representatives then take the winner below the 50% . . . what then?

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That's not going to happen. Regardless, that rule was in place before the election. Sanders agreed to it. Can't change the rules once election season begins.

Twitter Link
The thing!

I've seen him speak a few times and I worry the chap has dementia or something.

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Originally Posted by Loki

That's not going to happen. Regardless, that rule was in place before the election. Sanders agreed to it. Can't change the rules once election season begins.

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Its very possible it could happen. As it stands if you exclude the delegates that have gone to the people who've already pulled out Sanders is only 1 short of a majority of elected delegates but not close to a majority including Superdelegates.

Superdelegates should be abolished.

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Originally Posted by gogobongopop

Twitter Link
The thing!

I've seen him speak a few times and I worry the chap has dementia or something.

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I've been saying that all thread and I'm not trying to be nasty. Its generally concerning and sad. And there is no cure for degeneration it will only get worse.

LOL Aimless that video was funny, how did that campaign not take off more?

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Its very possible it could happen. As it stands if you exclude the delegates that have gone to the people who've already pulled out Sanders is only 1 short of a majority of elected delegates but not close to a majority including Superdelegates.

Superdelegates should be abolished.

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It's not terribly likely. With delegates given out roughly proportionally, it's pretty unlikely anyone can get 50% of the delegates. Especially when we haven't had a single primary so far where anyone got 50%.

Most superdelegates have limited ability to choose in the first round. And there are far fewer of them in 2020 than in 2016.

We've just seen half the candidates drop out in the last week.

We are down to 3 candidate. Entirely possible to get 50% from 3. If one of those 3 drops out its pretty much guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

We've just seen half the candidates drop out in the last week.

We are down to 3 candidate. Entirely possible to get 50% from 3. If one of those 3 drops out its pretty much guaranteed.

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4. Warren, Biden, Bloomberg, Sanders. Three of them are unlikely to drop out for a while.

Not when one candidate does well in some types of states and the other in other types of states, with a third candidate taking 10-15% in most.

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Originally Posted by gogobongopop

I've seen him speak a few times and I worry the chap has dementia or something.

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You're not alone. He's adequate when he's lucid though, so I'm a little less worried he's going to be making decisions he's in no condition to make. He's no Trump. I'm going to be putting a lot of hope in his VP choice, so it better be a good one.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

As Steely said earlier, we ended up with a very lackluster and uninspiring pool of candidates this cycle. I had intended to vote for Warren earlier this year, since Buttigieg has no experience, Biden is senile, Sanders actually IS a socialist, and I didn't know Klobuchar from a hole in the ground. Then I found myself thinking Klobuchar or Bloomberg. Now I'm wondering if I'm really going to be voting for Biden after all. I don't want to vote for Biden.

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Nobody wants to vote for Biden. We're just going to have to suck it up because US elections are about choosing between terrible and slightly less terrible. I'm sitting here wishing Warren was still viable so I could vote for her - things had to get pretty bad for that to happen.

Thank you voters for these choices. Kind of like how Republicans had to pick from between Trump and Cruz toward the end.

Why y'all speaking like this is settled? A few weeks ago, everyone was writing Biden off as a lost cause, now he's in close second and we've still got 4 months and something like 95% of delegates left to go.

It ain't over till it's over.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Why y'all speaking like this is settled? A few weeks ago, everyone was writing Biden off as a lost cause, now he's in close second and we've still got 4 months and something like 95% of delegates left to go.

It ain't over till it's over.

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Because it will be over tomorrow, when a quarter of all states vote. Barring a miracle, Warren will be seen as unelectable. It's unlikely Bloomberg will do well. And Biden and Sanders are guaranteed to do well enough to stick around until the end. Biden's success depends on there not being a viable centrist alternative. There really isn't now.

I mean, you blamed voters but have the centrist dems tried not being terrible?

Randblade, the innocent from the land of socialized medicine when exposed to the full depravity and ghoulishness of the US System: Woah. What the fuck? Woah. Holy shit. What? No way! Fuck. They didn't. What? What the actual fuck?

Randblade on the only candidates who want to change it: Insane. Communists. Not serious. Madmen. Oh my god. What the fuck?

Remember ][ear, who used to say everything was cognitive dissonance? He'd have loved this.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

I mean, you blamed voters but have the centrist dems tried not being terrible?

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There were a bunch of good centrist governors. None caught on.

Steely I have long railed against the corrupt US health care system and am 100% up for that getting changed though it'd take a miracle since any changes need to get through Congress too.

Do not call their healthcare capitalist it is anything but. It is insanely corrupt and never forget that US taxpayers spend more socialised on their health system than we do on ours.

Sanders and Warren are insane for other reasons not this. Sorting out Americas disastrous corrupt healthcare system is a gargantuan task I would completely support.

Oh for God's sake, neither are insane. Enough with the hyperbole, it's too silly coming from a Brexiter.

Warren's wealth tax proposal is insane and would trash the economy.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...ack-of-support

Brilliant article. Remarkable the similarities between Sanders and Corbyn, including the delusion of their supporters. Interesting to see the Sanders vote shares [so far] in states side-by-side with 2016. I hadn't realised he'd gone backwards so much.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Do not call their healthcare capitalist it is anything but.

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It's so capitalist it's got a stove pipe hat and a monocle.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Warren's wealth tax proposal is insane and would trash the economy.

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Taxing a tiny number of rich assholes 2% and an even tinier minority of even bigger assholes 6% on their enormous fortunes is not going to "trash the economy".

I like how you automatically assume someone is an asshole just based on having money. Really makes it clear it is about petty jealously more than anything else.