What is making you happy right now

My mum has a top loader, but the drum is horizontal like in a front loader (basically you open a hatch in the side of the drum to throw stuff in).

I also never knew anyone to throw in an item mid cycle except when they forgot it previously, and I've done family laundry, including athletic jerseys quite often, never had a problem with just adding them to the rest. And if dinner napkins are cotton, they can probably just be chucked in as well.


Good luck with the work, Aimless - don't be like my dad who started a project like that which was supposed to be done within a few months, but ended up taking a few years to complete :p

You can't avoid unexpected delays when there's a maniac with a saw inside your house.

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Originally Posted by Loki

You can't avoid unexpected delays when there's a maniac with a saw inside your house.

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I'd rather have said you should expect the unexpected in those circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

Pulled up Home Depot, one of the big handy man stores in the US, and I counted 23 full size top loaders before a front loader came up when browsing by price.

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And if you take the time to read consumer ratings....there's a reason for that. Americans haven't been so "happy" with retail front-load machines promising water and electricity savings. I paid a premium for my HE front-load Maytag in early '00s, because manufacturer/industry literature led me to believe European standards were finally available in the US.

I probably bought too early in the US market....because it didn't take long to realize our clothes were being twisted and stretched (far worse than any laundro-mat front load ever did), and it was a pain in the BACK to untangle the wet clothes and move it to the adjacent dryer. That's about the time elevator platforms came on the market, to make their appliance more "ergonomic" and user-friendly.

Around the same time HE detergents became commonly available in grocery stores, at twice the price -- even tho using ordinary laundry detergents by half would have been sufficient, because of simultaneous regulations on bio-phosphates, and sudsing surfactants. (Khen, all laundry detergents have expanders or "fillers". They're either silica or petroleum based. Sand is tough on fabrics and machinery; oil is hard on machinery and waste water treatment plants. Take your pick.)

The appliance manufacturers had entered into 'agreements' with laundry detergent companies to wash-each-others-backs, pun intended. :sour: The US tried to mimic European water and energy savings by introducing front-load washing machines, but it's been an overall failure. That might explain why popular new models are top-loading machines....but still have the same lock-out feature that only makes sense in front-loading machines.

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Originally Posted by GGT

(Khen, all laundry detergents have expanders or "fillers". They're either silica or petroleum based. Sand is tough on fabrics and machinery; oil is hard on machinery and waste water treatment plants. Take your pick.)

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Uh, fillers are either sodium sulphate in powdered detergents or plain water in liquid detergents. Silica based compounds (like Zeolithe A) are used as "builders" which exchange Calcium and Magnesium ions for Sodium ions in order to reduce the hardness of water. Those compounds, however, are not "sand". (This exchange, by the way, is the reason why your dishwasher needs salt - you regenerate the Ion Exchanger with Sodium Chloride so that you don't have this nasty chalky residue on your glass ware).

Lastly, petroleum based compounds would usually be the actual Tensides (or surfactants). However, at that point it's NOT "oil" anymore. They're Tensides now which is a completely different class of chemicals.

Not to mention that there are also Tensides based on sugar (yes, actual sugar) out there. Basically, those Tensides are a combination of Glucose and fatty oils (as in: the same oils you use to cook and the same sugar you use to bake a cake). Sugar-based Tensides are so-called Non-ionic Tensides. The other three classes of Tensides are Anionic, Kationic and Amphoteric Tensides. All four of them serve different purposes and can be used in other products. Skin moisturizers, for example.

In essence, you got nearly everything wrong. I'll tell you again: This is one of the courses I teach in school. You'll have to do much better in order to one-up me.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

Uh, fillers are either sodium sulphate in powdered detergents or plain water in liquid detergents. Silica based compounds (like Zeolithe A) are used as "builders" which exchange Calcium and Magnesia for Sodium.

Lastly, petroleum based compounds would usually be the actual Tensides (or surfactants). However, at that point it's NOT "oil" anymore. They're Tensides now which is a completely different class of chemicals.

Not to mention that there are also Tensides based on sugar (yes, actual sugar) out there. Basically, those Tensides are a combination of Glucose and fatty oils (as in: the same oils you use to cook and the same sugar you use to bake a cake).

In essence, you got nearly everything wrong. I'll tell you again: This is one of the courses I teach in school. You'll have to do much better in order to one-up me.

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I'm not trying to "one-up" your expertise as a chemistry teacher, Khen. But I do know that US laundry detergents aren't using the same fatty acids, carbohydrates, or oils that we eat like food. There are plenty of additives that make it unsafe for human consumption....including petroleum based by-products that are used as "fillers" (or "builders"). That's why detergents have different consumer categories. ie, you wouldn't put liquid dishwashing soap in your automatic dishwasher, or laundry washing machine, or use it as shampoo in the shower.

My main point was that "HE" washing machines can operate perfectly well without "HE" laundry detergents commanding two or three times the price. Or the water restrictions (posing as safety *or conservation* features) that don't really reduce water consumption.

Uh, no, GGT. Fillers are called fillers because they're just filling (just like the stuffing of a teddy bear). They're used to make the whole thing a powdery substance (and keep it a powdery substance). And that's all they're used for. During the washing process, fillers are chemically inert and don't do anything.

As for the rest: That's why it's called petroleum based. Because it's derived from petroleum. Just like sugar-based tensides are derived from sugar.

If you're unable to understand Chemistry, then please stop trying to tell me something because, again, you don't know what you're talking about. Seriously.

It's like talking to a monkey:

Me: "Hey, tensides are sorted into 4 different classes and have different applications!"
You: "Did you know that not every detergent can be used in a washing machine?"

Yes, GGT, as a matter of fact, I did know that. Again, get it into your thick head: I know more about this stuff than you do. I know exactly what is in there and what the different classes are used for. I know about fillers. I know about builders. I even produced my own Anionic Tensides (Soap belongs into that group), Kationic Tensides (Fatty alcohol sulfates) and Non-Ionic Tensides (Sugar-based ones, to be exact). I know about bleaching agents and how they're diffent from optical brightening agents, why there's still Soda in detergents for washing machines, about Protease and Colour Transference Inhibitors. I've done experiments to examine the biological degradation of tensides. I've used ash (that's where the name for the element "Potassium" stems from) and chestnuts to simulate the washing processes from times before the advent of proper detergents.

Anything else you want to tell me I already know?

Yeah, please explain the US laundry appliance industry...with millions of unhappy consumers. Do you know everything about US appliances, detergents, patents, water treatment plants, and public water (as political policy)? I don't think so. :bored:

I have a feeling it would be easier to get Rush Limbaugh to admit that Obama isn't an awful person than it would to get you to admit that you don't know something.

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Originally Posted by GGT

Yeah, please explain the US laundry appliance industry...with millions of unhappy consumers. Do you know everything about US appliances, detergents, patents, water treatment plants, and public water (as political policy)? I don't think so. :bored:

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Well, considering the fact that most of what you posted about detergents being just plain wrong, I dare say that I'm probably more knowledgable than you.

Not to mention that this "millions" stuff is a number pulled straight from thin air. And half of those "unhappy" people are probably equally ignorant as you which makes their numbers even more of a featherweight. I seem to remember that it was you who boasted of stocking up on phosphate based detergents event though their detrimental effects to the environments have been clearly proven. I guess that biology isn't your thing either (ever heard of "Eutrophication"?).

Uhm, I've never "stocked-up" on any consumer item....not even drinking water. Maybe you're confusing me with some other US poster? :confused:

You can take your debate about silicas in powders, oils in liquids, expanders/fillers/builders, detergents, surfactants, and chemical concentrates to the scientific community, and engineers in the laundry appliance industry....and run circles around me as an "average" consumer.

I've only said that I wasn't "happy" with my expensive HE front-load washing machine that failed in many ways, and stopped being efficient when it died after 10 years, and needed to be replaced. I couldn't simply replace ONE failed component, plus labor costs, and keep using the machine for years to come. I couldn't use the "equity" of the original purchase, milk it for every dollar paid, and move it forward...like older/used appliances can still do.

It made me HAPPY to find a used appliance (with available replacement parts) that still had another ten years of use, without the limitations of "new" technology that treats me like a complete idiot -- too stupid to keep my hands away from moving machinery, or save little children from drowning in an appliance.

I'm quite HAPPY to do laundry with a slightly older machine that doesn't have digital/computer puffery posing as shiny "high efficiency". I'm HAPPY that today's laundry detergents are more efficient, and don't require so much in pre-treatment, pre-soaking, special stain cycles, or re-washing.

I'm especially "happy" to have a machine that lets me fill the tub, feel the water temp, watch the sudsing action, add or remove items accordingly, or re-set cycles without dumping gallons of water. That wasn't an option with a front-loader, or a new top-loader, and I'm HAPPY to regain that user functionality.

Which brings us to the original point: Exactly which outlandish procedure do you think requires you to add stuff regularly mid-cycle?

Don't give me the crap about "delicate" fabrics. Delicate fabrics are either damaged by the wrong type of detergent (which you don't change as you don't change the water), too high a temperature (which you don't change either) or too high rotational speeds (which, again, you don't change).

Soaking times? Hardly a problem as washing water is far from being acidic (the opposite, actually).

Unless we're talking about "handwash" delicate. Which you shouldn't put into a washing machine anyway (unless you've got a modern one which reduces temperature and spin-dry speed. And use a proper detergent).

Just bought a roundtrip ticket to Istanbul for €90 (all included).

The "original point" was that industry standards for water/energy consumption, consumer safety, and "commercial grade" appliances were based on public use, not retail or home-use. No laundromat owner wants some yahoo over-stuffing their "commercial grade" front-load machines with big comforters and sleeping bags....but they might be persuaded to do so at $8 per load, and $0.50 cents per drying minute....even it that means comforters and sleeping bags aren't really cleaned but smell better.

I'll note that you still didn't answer the question. I'll repost it again:

Exactly which outlandish procedure do you think requires you to add stuff regularly mid-cycle?

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

I'll note that you still didn't answer the question. I'll repost it again:

Exactly which outlandish procedure do you think requires you to add stuff regularly mid-cycle?

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Not sure why you think it's "outlandish" to add laundry items after the wash cycle begins, or expect the ability to change wash cycles mid-cycle....without emptying 30 gallons of tub water first. :mong:

Are you really unable to answer a simple question?

Again, I'm asking you WHY you think you have to be able to do this on a regular basis. I'm suspecting that you don't know yourself and that's why you're unable to answer this simple question, instead of re-iterating your hare-brained notions.

ANSWER THE QUESTION.

(And 30 gallons of water? Good lord, what kind of washing machines are you employing? My modern machine uses less than half of that (47 liters or 12.4 gallons (and that only if it's actually fully loaded and with the most soiled loads) - and most of it at the near-end of the cycle when it comes to rinsing the detergents out)).

I've responded to your questions in multiple ways, but you're not HAPPY with my replies. I've tried to explain why my "HE" front load washing machine posed as a "smart" appliance....but didn't deliver promised water or electricity savings. Your response was, basically, that I'm too stoopid to recognize modern efficiencies that can only come from modern technology, and new appliances. :mong:

Aaaaaand ... still not answered the question.

You didn't explain anything. Nothing at all. Again, WHY do you put stuff into the washing machine in the middle of the cycle?

THAT is the question. Answer it. And of course I'm not happy with your replies. If I'm asking my pupils why they're doing something, I want to know why they're doing it. And not a description of what they're doing and how the government is oppressing their right to free speech or some moronic dingbat speech.

By the way, that modern efficiency? I'm using 12 gallons of water per load. Try doing that with your antiquated crap instead of using 30. Even if I wash my stuff in two separate loads I'm still coming out on top.

I would like to know the answer too, so please GGT, just answer that simple question.

'The Wife' had her first scan on Wednesday, what a unbelievable experience that was. I saw my little son/daughters heart beating away, it's arms and feet. Truly remarkable, especially when you consider at this stage the baby is only 6cm long.

I got to say, to those people who've experienced this before and spoken about how extraordinary it is to experience - how right are you so far.

The first time I saw it I got teary-eyed and it wasn't even mine :o fortunately it was dark in the room

scarlett looked like a peanut on the first visit. :\ took a while for the cuteness to come in considering she went home under 5lbs and looking like a skeleton

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

Aaaaaand ... still not answered the question.

You didn't explain anything. Nothing at all. Again, WHY do you put stuff into the washing machine in the middle of the cycle?

THAT is the question. Answer it. And of course I'm not happy with your replies. If I'm asking my pupils why they're doing something, I want to know why they're doing it. And not a description of what they're doing and how the government is oppressing their right to free speech or some moronic dingbat speech.

By the way, that modern efficiency? I'm using 12 gallons of water per load. Try doing that with your antiquated crap instead of using 30. Even if I wash my stuff in two separate loads I'm still coming out on top.

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Oh. My. God. :picard: I was not happy to learn that new top-load washing machines came with the same lock-out feature as new front-loaders. And that new industry standards didn't have the same pause/stop feature that came on my 12 yr old front-load machine that I used sometimes, to add or remove an item before the washing process was in full action. Instead, the new machines dump any/all water already put in the tub, and automatically start the filling process all over again.....wasting water and electricity.

I don't know anyone who hasn't missed that stray sock or dish towel or baby blanket, whether doing laundry at home or a laundro-mat, and wanted to add something at the last minute. Or take out that "dry clean only" item from Christmas before it gets ruined. Or has the teenager doing their own load but remembers they forgot to check their pockets first, and needs to rescue a cell phone, or retrieve in ink pen. That's how "Family Laundry" is frequently done in the US, with multiple users, and people are not perfect.

IMO, US industry standards for "high efficiency" or "smart" use of water and electricity doesn't necessarily do either....when they limit the users' choices under the guise of "safety" or "conservation". I hope that answers direct questions so we can get back to the HAPPY in this thread.



Lor, congrats on your first fatherly visual. I'm glad it was a HAPPY moment. :up:

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Originally Posted by GGT

I don't know anyone who hasn't missed that stray sock or dish towel or baby blanket, whether doing laundry at home or a laundro-mat, and wanted to add something at the last minute. Or take out that "dry clean only" item from Christmas before it gets ruined. Or has the teenager doing their own load but remembers they forgot to check their pockets first, and needs to rescue a cell phone, or retrieve in ink pen. That's how "Family Laundry" is frequently done in the US, with multiple users, and people are not perfect.

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You should just stop using your washing machine as laundry basket and put a basket next to the machine. You only move the laundry from the basket to the machine just before you start the machine. All the tasks you just described, will be done in this step.

This is how That's how "Family Laundry" is frequently done in Switzerland, with multiple users, and Swiss are not perfect either.

I'm not sure why a missed sock is such an emergency. Unless you've only got the pair. Sounds to me as if you're blaming the machines for shoddy housekeeping.

My problem is losing the socks. Not forgetting to put them in :p

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Originally Posted by Flixy

My problem is losing the socks. Not forgetting to put them in :p

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As long as you only lose one sock, not pairs.

After god knows how many years, 100% completion in GTA IV. :D

I got a sneak-peek at my tax rebate... it was most pleasant at first but then I realised that the country would probably have been better off if the gummint had just kept the half-month salary and put it to some good use. Still, mixed in with the shame and disgust is some pleasure :)