If by 'us' you mean, 'delusional tories' then, yeah, we get you.
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If by 'us' you mean, 'delusional tories' then, yeah, we get you.
I mean people who voted to take back control and leave the EU and leave the Single Market, the 52% of Brits who won the Referendum.
My father, who voted to leave and had hated the manner in which the EU has grown on size and power, wanted to remain in the Single Market.
Let's not pretend that all leave voters voted for the same thing, please.
And, once again, we've always had control. We're getting a little bit more sovereignty by leaving. But again this is up for debate given the state of our parliamentary process under a Johnson government, the House of Lords and FPTP.
The Remain-backing government and Leave-backing campaigners were explicit that voting to leave the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market. Both Michael Gove and Boris Johnson explicitly and without equivocation said that.
They also said we wouldn't trigger article 50 until we had agreed a new deal with the EU, so who's to say what people believed.
There isn't a 52% of Brits who want to get out of the EU. There never was.
No deal at the end of the year looking increasingly odds on.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...nder-t5sf30chw
[can bypass the paywall on Firefox with the Bypass Paywall extension if you Google that]
That you think that we're noticing this just now is one of the weirder aspects of this discussion.
Here we go: Michel Barnier to be Sidelined by EU Leaders in Bid to Break Brexit Deadlock.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-break-brexit/
Representatives of the bloc’s 27 member states expect Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, to pave the way for heads of state and government to intervene in the deadlocked talks in a September 16 flagship speech.
[snip]
Mrs von der Leyen, German chancellor Angela Merkel, whose country holds the presidency of the EU, and Charles Michel, the president of the European Council, are then expected to take over the talks for Brussels.
The article is a complete mess. First of all it were Merkel and Michel refusing Barnier’s suggestion for the Council to take on a more active role. They would be the ones to consider sacking Barnier. For Van der Leyen sidelining Barnier would mean sidelining and undermining her own Commission.
Finally, the article is a typical example of Brexiteers obsessing over the messenger and not getting that the brick wall the are hitting is his mandate and not the man.
TLDR; Barnier is not going anywhere.
The mandate is the issue.
Barnier can't change his own mandate. Heads of Government can.
If Barnier is to be sidelined, it's because they want to phase out the compromising and conciliatory approach, in a natural progression towards a no deal Brexit. In that respect, it might signal a change of mandate, but not towards a real deal.
There is no compromising under Barnier because his mandate doesn't permit him to compromise.
Direct eliminations remove the mandate which is the problem. Either way though, an actual real negotiation with a good deal or no deal. Win/win either way.
Barnier's role has involved going back to the 27 with recommendations on areas to compromise on, which is why the EU has made significant concessions in order to keep the negotiations moving forward towards a real deal. Most of the 27 are not that keen on budging further, and their desire for a real deal is not that strong.
Neither are we prepared to go further.
We'll see what happens next. Either way I'm happy. We may as well attempt some real negotiations but if they fail we can move on, then resume negotiations next year.
The only way this story could be true is that Barnier is considered to have gone native. And if this were the case his replacement isn't going to be more pro-British.
But most of all. It doesn't make sense that VDL would be behind this.
In roughly 120 days you will start begging for negotiations, and you will be paying a significantly higher price for anything we give you by then. Because by then Randblade, we will be in a mood to start punishing you for real. The concessions your government will be willing to make by then will make your head spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
We will never be begging for anything, that is what you don't understand. We are going to make a success of it by ourselves.
You can either be friendly neighbours and trading partners, or just get out of our way.
We are not going anywhere. The reality is that we are ready for a no deal termination of the transition and you are not. Every day you 'take back control' by not controling anything, you destroy your own economy while your borders are our doormat into your markets. Entire industries could fold before the first month is over.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Not going to happen.
Even a no deal Brexit just isn't that big of a deal. COVID19 was a much bigger deal.
"Was"? I see you're doing the Trump again.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Yes "was".
Economically for the UK the worst of COVID19 was in the past. The economy is now in recovery not collapsing.
:confused: 2000 new cases per day?:(Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Dude, I kind of have to repeat it again: Don't count your chickens before they hatch.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Also: "Economically for the UK the worst of COVID19 is in the past." Because otherwise you're just contradicting yourself (and admitting that my sentiment is actually true). Once again, teaching how the English language works to a supposed native speaker.
Well, what do you expect from someone who thinks De Pfeffel is smart ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
Yes, Test and Trace has come into its own now at really tracking down the infections. The cases per day number is meaningless without further context. The overwhelming majority of those 2000 per day are not sick and are being tracked down - back in May when comparable numbers were quoted it was being that many had tested positive in hospital and hundreds to a thousand per day were dying, now the figure is 2 and most hospitals in the country have zero COVID patients.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
According to the most reliable data, the ONS serological survey, the virus has stabilised in the UK at a low level and isn't rising, but the rate of cases detected is going up. Previously the tests were identifying an estimated fewer than 1 in 10 cases, then 4 in 10 a few weeks ago, now the estimate is 6 in 10. For weeks now cases testing positive have gone up, while deaths and hospitalisations have gone down and the ONS serological survey data remains stable.
https://i.imgur.com/u5lEPP5.png
https://i.imgur.com/vNdYnVw.png
NHS Test and Trace is doing a higher tests per capita ratio now than almost any other comparable country in the world and more importantly the positivity rate in those tests is very low: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/p...TA~PRT~ESP~GBR
Khen don't be a Grammar Nazi. Its not big and its not clever.
Umm, you do know that this is NOT a good sign? If you expect actual infections to be down (or at least stable) then, with more or stable testing, you'd expect the positives to go down or at least be stable. If they're going up then your infection rate is still rising! And deaths are down because currently the younger people become infected. That may change again.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
If you're directly contradicting yourself then maybe you should think before you write something. That's not being a "grammar nazi", it's only pointing out that you're talking nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
https://amp.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-...0-130c75a2f7a7
Violating international law by deliberately breaching treaty obligations... is definitely something that makes you look like a reasonable trading partner :bulb:
Eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
The absolute number of cases coming back are going up with testing numbers going up, they've gone marginally down but its still stable.
The serological survey shows infection numbers are stable.
The proportion of cases coming back positive are not going up.
I guess they think their reputation is shot anyway. I doubt we'll be even willing to do the bare minimum of cooperation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless