What made you go WTF today?

Take a car to be inspected for the state. Including emissions. Change the oil, rotate the tires, fill fluids, put on a new wiper blade, replace a rear tail light bulb = $89. But can't pass the inspection because Check Engine light is on. Take it to a dealer, they say. They won't touch it.

Dealership says the O2 sensor is busted, something is wrong with the window wiper mechanism, the front brakes are marginal (they pass inspection standards but they won't put their stamp on it). To complete the work and get passed for inspection will be ~ $1,300.

It's an '03 Nissan with almost 200,000 miles. We already replaced the clutch, the front brakes, and two front tires (since then, rotated to the back). When I asked the service dude if he could talk to the sales dude about a trade-in with lower miles and a good warranty, he put me on hold for like half an hour. Came back to say I could talk to the sales manager.

Fuck. When they can't decide if they want money from service or sales, I don't know what the hell to think.

So, I asked the guy, if he were advising HIS MOTHER what would he advise? Long pause, silence. So I ask, if it were his car, what would he do? Longer silence. Then he demured, well, he couldn't really give advice from his end. He's just there to make a paycheck and well, he has to keep the dealership in mind as his employer. Yeah, sorry to put you in a bind that way.

But he did offer some cleaning and detail service or future oil change discounts if I just said "Do what it takes to pass inspection".

:mad:

:cry:

My god, how the hell did you put so much mileage on it? I was unhappy about the high mileage on the '02 Nissan I traded in - it had 89k miles on it.

Also, if the repairs are more than the car is worth, it isn't worth repairing.

Going onto the old Atari site after several years away and finding out y'all had moved. Yello again!

Mnem? Is that you?

:banana:

Welcome back, er, here! :D

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

My god, how the hell did you put so much mileage on it? I was unhappy about the high mileage on the '02 Nissan I traded in - it had 89k miles on it.

Also, if the repairs are more than the car is worth, it isn't worth repairing.

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It was a second hand car from a brother-in-law who used to drive from Pa/NJ to NYC every day to work. He took very good care of the car and kept it maintained, but cars have a half-life. It's not like the OLD DAYS where you could replace a transmission on a Chevy with fin tails and drive around Cuba.

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Originally Posted by GGT

Mnem? Is that you?

Welcome back, er, here! :D

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Thanks for the warm welcome :) Good to know you're alive and kicking.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Thanks for the warm welcome :) Good to know you're alive and kicking.

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You were always a smart poster. Good discusser as well as "debater". Minx showed a picture of you two a long time ago, it was sweet and you're both cute!

Also, this place needs some estrogen. These guys get really smelly after a while. Yes, trite has a scent. ;)

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Originally Posted by GGT

You were always a smart poster. Good discusser as well as "debater". Minx showed a picture of you two a long time ago, it was sweet and you're both cute!

Also, this place needs some estrogen. These guys get really smelly after a while. Yes, trite has a scent. ;)

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Haha, I didn't know he'd finally decided to admit on here that we knew each other. He's the one I emailed to ask WTF happened to Atari and that's how I found the new forum.

I was just reading some of the Site Discussion posts... it's interesting to see how everyone is approaching the idea of self-governing... and you're tearing each other apart like only a family can. :)

Self-governing as in self-moderating moderators? Yes, we don't need no stinkin' moderator, but I also don't think this forum is a democracy. Just so small that no one seems to notice.

But don't put obscenities in titles? I stopped reading Site Discussion after its first week. Otherwise we can cuss like sailors. :D :noob:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Self-governing as in self-moderating moderators? Yes, we don't need no stinkin' moderator, but I also don't think this forum is a democracy. Just so small that no one seems to notice

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No, definitely more of an oligarchy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GGT

It was a second hand car from a brother-in-law who used to drive from Pa/NJ to NYC every day to work. He took very good care of the car and kept it maintained, but cars have a half-life. It's not like the OLD DAYS where you could replace a transmission on a Chevy with fin tails and drive around Cuba.

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Uh, cars now are made about 1000 times better than those old pieces of garbage. You whine about saving oil, but then mourn for the good old days of gas guzzling, high polluting junk.

Nice.

My 30 day prescription cost me $7.00. It cost my insurance company $380.22. Wow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

Uh, cars now are made about 1000 times better than those old pieces of garbage. You whine about saving oil, but then mourn for the good old days of gas guzzling, high polluting junk.

Nice.

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How about you reply again when your kids are of driving age, but they're not independent emancipated minors? You have no idea. YET.

There are many factors involved in the second family car besides fuel efficiency. There's also insurance, which no minor could afford if they applied on their own, instead of being added to an existing parent's policy. Sure, there's the Safe Auto option, but it won't cover any liability. To have a comprehensive policy that won't lead to bankruptcy, they need to be added as a dependent and secondary to their parents.

Insuring a teenaged boy in the US costs at least $90/month, minimum. I don't need to know how much more it would cost to drive a NEW car, because it's always more costly than insuring an older car. A new car is old the minute it goes off the lot, but its replacement value is still high. Either one can cause damage to another driver or pedestrian. I'm not insuring the car as much as my child. He's pretty safe in an '03 with airbags, but I can't drive with him all the time and say Slow Down, Don't make that turn, oh my god. He got all that in driver's training.

My friend's son had a DUI when he was 21 yrs old in college, and he was quoted at $600/month for car insurance. Needless to say, that kid will be riding a bike or taking a bus in Buffalo.

So Lolli, how about you tell me what to do about the car thing? Ditch the '03 Nissan with high mileage? Sell it outright or trade it in? What make and model and year should we buy, how much mileage, what kind of warranty, how much is the insurance? How much should the kid contribute, or his father?

It's not like we can run to our sugar daddy and say write a check for new wheels. Even if we could, that wouldn't be a very good lesson for the kid, would it?

$1,300 can buy another used car. Probably in the same condition as the one we already have. But we wouldn't know the previous owner(s) or how they maintained the car, not even a Vehix check can tell us that.

Since you seem to have a firm handle on this, what do you recommend?

I'd buy a late model used car. There is no point at all in buying another headache. If you're buying it for him his father should contribute equally to you.

He's an adult, why are you making the decisions for him?

$1,300 would be a nice down payment on a Kia fresh off a lease. They don't have the best resale value (good for you), but can easily hold their own againist the other makes.
Newer cars also require less time at the mechanic, my '07 Saturn and '10 Honda can go 10,000 miles before the dash starts requesting an oil change.

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

I'd buy a late model used car. There is no point at all in buying another headache. If you're buying it for him his father should contribute equally to you.

He's an adult, why are you making the decisions for him?

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He's already driving a late model used car. It needs some work, as all older cars do. Most used cars come with headaches.

You assume his father gives a shit, or contributed in any way. He doesn't and he won't. The minute our son turned 18 years old, his dad washed his hands of him. Neither son nor father are really "adults" in this equation. Just me. I asked my son to think long and hard about this, and he said it seemed like pouring good money into bad. He wouldn't put his OWN money into the repairs, he'd rather ride a bike to work.

Then he asked to borrow my car so he could go out on a Friday night.

2003 is not a late model used car.

Let him take his bike out. I hardly think cutting them off at 18 is the answer, but the lesson you want him to see is that there are consequences to his decisions. OG's Kia idea isn't a bad one, but considering what you just said I don't know if I'd be willing to cosign for the loan for him.

I've always found it funny that a newer car, that by definition has less faults and better technological design in brakes, crumple zones, airbags and a ton of other safety features, is multiple times more expensive than an older, 'less safe' car. The only reason for this that I can think of is that it would put a monumental dent in Insurance companies profits.

That's just it. He works very hard, over 40 hours a week at a pizzeria, barely above minimum wage. But it's several miles away by car. Riding a bike in these areas is generally not a safe option; we don't have bike paths or even safe berm shoulders for cars. He'd have to ride over a state bypass 4 lane and an interstate 6 lane highway. Even the "back roads" lead to those things. We are definitely stuck in car mode. He could ride his bike a couple of miles, chain the thing and wait for a bus. That would take him over an hour to get to work. To earn less than $9/hour.

His goal is to work, earn and save his own money, to travel south America and enroll in college again, after he's had his hiatus. At this rate, it will take him until he's 30 years old.

:(

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

2003 is not a late model used car.

Let him take his bike out. I hardly think cutting them off at 18 is the answer, but the lesson you want him to see is that there are consequences to his decisions. OG's Kia idea isn't a bad one, but considering what you just said I don't know if I'd be willing to cosign for the loan for him.

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Would you tell this to my friend's parents? She's destroyed three Hondas now because of reckless driving, but her parents just keep getting them replaced. I, on the other hand, have never had any sort of accident with my crappy 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Is it your crappy '96 Jeep, or your parents'? Do you pay the insurance and maintenance costs, or do your parents?

We'll just have to ignore your friend totalling 3 Hondas and her folks replacing them, because that's just bizarre.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Take a car to be inspected for the state. Including emissions. Change the oil, rotate the tires, fill fluids, put on a new wiper blade, replace a rear tail light bulb = $89. But can't pass the inspection because Check Engine light is on. Take it to a dealer, they say. They won't touch it.

Dealership says the O2 sensor is busted, something is wrong with the window wiper mechanism, the front brakes are marginal (they pass inspection standards but they won't put their stamp on it). To complete the work and get passed for inspection will be ~ $1,300.

It's an '03 Nissan with almost 200,000 miles. We already replaced the clutch, the front brakes, and two front tires (since then, rotated to the back). When I asked the service dude if he could talk to the sales dude about a trade-in with lower miles and a good warranty, he put me on hold for like half an hour. Came back to say I could talk to the sales manager.

Fuck. When they can't decide if they want money from service or sales, I don't know what the hell to think.

So, I asked the guy, if he were advising HIS MOTHER what would he advise? Long pause, silence. So I ask, if it were his car, what would he do? Longer silence. Then he demured, well, he couldn't really give advice from his end. He's just there to make a paycheck and well, he has to keep the dealership in mind as his employer. Yeah, sorry to put you in a bind that way.

But he did offer some cleaning and detail service or future oil change discounts if I just said "Do what it takes to pass inspection".

:mad:

:cry:

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Crazy that you need the O2 sensors to be fully functional to pass an MOT. I don't think that's the case here. Mine busted a while back and it cost £150 to replace. I don't know if you know what it does, but it measures the O2 in the exhaust to check for proper fuel/oxygen levels. If there is too much of one or t'other, the sensors pick it up and instruct the engine to burn less/more fuel to compensate. If your o2 sensor is bust, it just burns the default amount of fuel, so it's worth doing in the long run to maintain a decent MPG efficciency, but for a car that's done 200,000 miles and is probably on it's last legs, not worth it.

When you say bike, do you mean motorbike?


Edit: No, you probably mean bicycle.

It sounds like getting the car fixed is a waste of time, and it also sounds like buying a new car = waste of money you don't particularly have.

Has he considered looking for a job closer to home? I'm assuming if it's in a Pizzeria, it's something that he could do anywhere, rather than being tied to that one place?

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Originally Posted by Flixy

That seems young to go to war (or don't they send you out until over 18?).

Anyway, as far as long lasting wars go we have you beat ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War

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This just proves that the Dutch are crap at wars. Surely a better mark of dominance would be the honour of Shortest War in History?

And that little gem goes to the UK, after completely pissing all over Zanzibar from a great height and winning after a total of 40 minutes!

500 Zanzibar's dead, that's 13 men a minute. Epic. And 1 wounded Englishman.



The craziest country for wars has to go to Finland though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

Don't fuck with Finland, crazy, CRAZY motherfuckers

No, by bike I mean a bicycle.

I am not a car enthusiast nor do I really understand our state's inspection shit. We took it to Monro, they changed the oil and rotated the tires, put on a new wiper blade and replaced a burnt out tail light.

They tried to do the emissions test and safety inspection, but it failed because of the Check Engine Light. They were happy to charge us for the diagnostics, but couldn't put the stickers on the windshield and said Take it to a Dealer.

Dealer said it had a faulty wiper motor, and the the O2 sensor was busted and had to be replaced. Seems the exhaust was fine, but the sensor was bad.

I asked how they knew this, was it some overall computer chip failure or what? (I figured the wiper motor was connected to the general computer of the car, including the O2 sensor.) Why didn't Monro tell me the same thing? I got some mumbo jumbo, they said it wasn't connected to the car's computer system. Well what the bloody fuck?

Sounds like you got fobbed off to me. They have a small laptop type computer that they plug into a socket hidden in one of the footwells, and it gives a list of all the error codes that your car has, which they can then decipher into what the problem is. So perhaps the first place didn't have that equipment? I dunno. What's Monro? Like an MOT test centre?

Monro Muffler and Brake, it's a national franchise garage that does mostly oil changes, brakes and mufflers, but they are also a "certified state inspection" place.

I do think we got ripped off somehow, somewhere, maybe by both Monro and the Nissan dealer. Pisses me off. They see a woman and her kid, and since I was asking a lot of questions they figured no man would come around to "help us". I tried not to look too clueless but it must have been obvious I had no idea what was going on.

:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Monro Muffler and Brake, it's a national franchise garage that does mostly oil changes, brakes and mufflers, but they are also a "certified state inspection" place.

I do think we got ripped off somehow, somewhere, maybe by both Monro and the Nissan dealer. Pisses me off. They see a woman and her kid, and since I was asking a lot of questions they figured no man would come around to "help us". I tried not to look too clueless but it must have been obvious I had no idea what was going on.

:mad:

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I think fiddling with the exhaust is a bit more involved than just an oil change or brakes. It doesn't sound like they ripped you off, and $89 sounds about right. Best thing you can do is learn to do little things yourself. Replacing wiper blades is probably the easiest thing you can ever do to a car. Just get the right wiper for the car, cut it to length if necessary and slide it in for the new one. Fluid replacement? Easy. Checking oil levels, windscreen washer levels, brake fluid levels etc.. all very easy, it's right there underneath the bonnet, you just gotta check if it's at above the MIN line, and top it up if it needs it. A bottle of Engine oil doesn't cost much, but is so much cheaper than using a garage.

As for tail/head lights, if you can change a lightbulb in your house, you can change a car one. You can buy bulb kits anywhere for cheap. The light just unclips inside the boot, it looks like 2 bulldog clips, then the whole thing just pulls out. Unscrew the old bulb and screw in the new one. Try not to touch the glass on the new bulb if you can avoid it, then clip it back in. That's 3 jobs done, would probably take half hour at the most. I remember my garage charged me £30 to replace my windscreen wipers once; I learnt my lesson that day!

As for Licensed dealers (Ford, Nissan etc) you're ALWAYS gonna get dicked on the price. And for a car that's done 200,000 miles, it's just not worth the price. Look around for a smaller garages. They'll fix the car for so much less.

Or should we replace the car? That's the question.

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Originally Posted by GGT

Or should we replace the car? That's the question.

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What is left to get fixed? Just the o2 sensor?

If so, see if you can get it fixed for cheaper elsewhere. Then do the sums. Is it cheaper to get it fixed then keep the car until it dies, or Part Exchange it for a car with less miles? I can't imagine a frigg'n sensor being too much. Get it fixed then run it into the ground

But that's what I can't figure out! What's it mean to run the damn thing into the ground? When they say the transmission needs to be replaced? By then, how much have we spent replacing sensors, catalytic converters, rotors, universal joints, or whatever? We've already replaced the clutch, and that wasn't cheap tortillas.

New tires and brake pads or shoes or calipers are expected over time, with heavy use. Right? When the hell do we know it's time to retire the car?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Haha, I didn't know he'd finally decided to admit on here that we knew each other. He's the one I emailed to ask WTF happened to Atari and that's how I found the new forum.

I was just reading some of the Site Discussion posts... it's interesting to see how everyone is approaching the idea of self-governing... and you're tearing each other apart like only a family can. :)

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On the bright side, this experience has reaffirmed several preconceptions I have of humanity!

(It's not a very bright side at all)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Monro Muffler and Brake, it's a national franchise garage that does mostly oil changes, brakes and mufflers, but they are also a "certified state inspection" place.

I do think we got ripped off somehow, somewhere, maybe by both Monro and the Nissan dealer. Pisses me off. They see a woman and her kid, and since I was asking a lot of questions they figured no man would come around to "help us". I tried not to look too clueless but it must have been obvious I had no idea what was going on.

:mad:

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Very possibly. Women seem to get ripped off quite often. All you can really do is, research the sensor thing and other part(s) that need repair/replaced, and show you are informed and not a complete idiot. Most garages seem to think women have NO idea of what makes a car run! :mad:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Or should we replace the car? That's the question.

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That depends on 1.) what the car is worth KBB value and 2.) do you want to spend a bunch of money on an older car?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GGT

But that's what I can't figure out! What's it mean to run the damn thing into the ground? When they say the transmission needs to be replaced? By then, how much have we spent replacing sensors, catalytic converters, rotors, universal joints, or whatever? We've already replaced the clutch, and that wasn't cheap tortillas.

New tires and brake pads or shoes or calipers are expected over time, with heavy use. Right? When the hell do we know it's time to retire the car?

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To me, running the car into the ground means When the fucking thing no longer starts/runs at all, it's dead! Seriously, when the car is costing you more than it's worth, it's time to shitcan it!

EDIT: The Friend's Grand Prix has 92,000 miles on it, but it runs like a champ! By contrast, his 2004 Volvo semi has 900,000 miles on it! Sometimes mileage has nothing to do with how well the car runs!

EDIT 2: A short, funny story. In 1982 I owned a 1979 Chevy Nova that had a 350 V8 in it. The dude at the parts store in Cody was absolutely positive I had no clue what I needed for an air filter! He kept trying to sell me a cleaner for a V6, which clearly was NOT going to fit in my car! I was 7 months pregnant, and clearly female, so he assumed I knew nothing about my car. I finally told him, "Hey dude, you go make that fucking thing fit in that car!" He went outside, opened my hood, and just about shit! He went back in and got me the right air filter and said, "Lady, you really did know what you were talking about!" I still think of that guy every time I go buy auto parts for any reason! :haha:

More than one-quarter don’t know who US gained independence from
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0703/one...-independence/

:bulb:

Haha, how can 26% of the country not know that?

China :haha:

A long con that would even impress Sawyer...

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

A long con that would even impress Sawyer...

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Hey, they're even selling the Swedish Chef!

You got ripped off, GGT. My O2 sensor has "failed" before, often all I've had to do is unplug the battery and replug it back in. This "clears" the check engine light. The spark plugs can misfire from time to time and give that sensor as a failure (I have a 97 saturn). Also, if you have an Autozone in your area, they will hook a diagnostic machine to your car for free, and an O2 sensor failure would show up on their machine. If the sensor really is busted, then I guess you would have to replace it.

It sucks that car dealerships still operate that way, but I guess they get their money that way. :(

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Originally Posted by oldmunchkin

EDIT: The Friend's Grand Prix has 92,000 miles on it, but it runs like a champ! By contrast, his 2004 Volvo semi has 900,000 miles on it! Sometimes mileage has nothing to do with how well the car runs!

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That's a typo right ?

The local walmart is remodeling. During this process they set out a large collection of video games for people to rummage through. Appears most of these games are those rare "fell behind the rack games" a lot of ancient PS2 games, a few xbox games, and HOLY HELL Eternal Darkness for the gamecube. One of the most sought after games for the Gamecube. Still priced at $49.95 :bulb: I couldn't take a picture cause my phone was dead :( this is one of those no one is going to believe me stories :cry:. If I didn't already own a copy, I would have bought it, full price be damned, just for the LOL.