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No I'm in New Zealand and I realise that the US has a very different, almost insanely predatory, financial system.
Here electronic transactions are the way of life, even when I was working as a dishwasher in a restaurant I was paid electronically. I provided a link buried in my post, I'll make it clearer here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debit_card#New_Zealand. And for added info here's the kind of bank account my eftpos card is linked to http://bnz.co.nz/Personal_Solutions/...-3-636,FF.html
:haha: Sorry, but that leader was pretty funny.Quote:
Why spend your money on bank fees? When you've got far more important things to spend your money on, like a new CD, shoes, movie tickets, Chardonnay, lunch or lipstick.
Smart Money lets you do just that. Under 30's pay no monthly base fee, and there's no charge for 30 electronic transactions1 each month (Service Fees may apply).
Service Fees may apply ;)
edit: I forgot to add the latest twist around here. I live in a small town with a couple of colleges and a big university extension. They all offer this special debit card for students; their parents could deposit money electronically, so their kids could buy sandwiches or gas or whatever. Many merchants have stopped accepting these cards because the students were constantly over-drawing their accounts. College students, taking advanced math and econ classes. :rolleyes:
I know, I mean really, who buys CD's these days? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
I'm sure they do but looking at my transaction history I don't seem to be hitting that 30 free transaction limit yet (unless this rebate cancelling out the fee is something else... hmm)Quote:
Service Fees may apply ;)
Our system has some predatory elements, for sure. But we have some seriously stupid young adults. I stand behind these people in line and watch them use their "special college debit card" to pay for a soda or bottle of water. Pretty sure there's a swipe or service fee involved, but they don't care. Even though they could use the fee-free ATM right there in the store to get cash (adjacent to a bank that participates in this college debit card plan). Then they wonder why they get overdrawn, or start seeing signs their college debit cards aren't accepted any more.
:rolleyes:
That's why I wonder if some kind of display on the card could help, if they could look at the card and see how much money is on it could that help them manage it better? Or would they ignore the display and still overdraw the card all the time?
How would "looking at the card" help them? :confused: You're describing how our "food stamp" system works---it's now a debit card system that displays how much is left in the account before the cashier ends the transaction. I stand behind those people, too. They bought more than the card could buy, so they have to figure out what to put back and what to keep. It's a pain in the ass to wait for the cashier to credit purchases and re-tally the total.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum
I wonder if part of this is how our schools do the cafeteria debit accounts, and that's how they learn it? They can have an occasional overdraft and the school sends a note home. No biggie. No surcharge or fee. Then they go to college (or use the food stamp program) and assume someone else is keeping track for them. All the time. No big deal. Wait, what do you mean I'm over limit? Hang on, let me call my mom....
Hum, somewhat out of my experience so I can't really comment. Back when I was in highschool the cafeteria was still cash only, I don't know what they're doing today and how the kids are managing it. *shrug*
I posted something about our school cafeterias a couple of pages ago. :p
But that was rather my question over-all: are people better off learning how to manage CASH or managing e-money? For little kids with allowances and bank accounts, I think cash is a great way to teach the connection between real money and their bank statements. There's something valuable about the tactile element. Counting out coins and dollars, seeing it and handling it. "Manipulatives" is a good math tool, for groupings and conceptual learning. That can turn into e-money, but from what I've seen so far, I don't think people learn the fundamentals very well without actually handling paper cash and coins. Cards and plastic is still a fairly high level of contextual currency.
If you know what I mean. :)
Your ones yes, but I'm out of date on our ones so I can't compare them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
True but in some countries like mine where cash is becoming less common the solution will have to involve new ways of teaching kids money that don't involve cash. Especially once it becomes "old fashioned" to use cash.Quote:
That can turn into e-money, but from what I've seen so far, I don't think people learn the fundamentals very well without actually handling paper cash and coins. Cards and plastic is still a fairly high level of contextual currency.
I wondered if there were some technical solutions we could use but from what you've been saying it sounds like even something a simple as having a counter on the front of your card telling you how much money you have left wouldn't work all that well.
Maybe we need to start teaching kids basic economics in school earlier?
I hate Cheques too. Stupid things. I haven't used one for about 8 years now, never even finished my original cheque book. Not a single retailer I know about accepts them any more.
Cheques are due to be 100% abolished in the UK by 2018. Good riddance.
I like the e-ink idea. Could work on credit cards too, be updated to show your balance.
I no longer get any paper statements doing everything online, but I get free text messages if my spending goes above certain levels that I set, well below my limit.
Maybe my imagination just isn't able to go far enough into getting rid of actual cash and coins. At least not in teaching young children about units of money. Would be like teaching them imperial or metric without cooking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum
Bully for you? :p Do you think large money exchanges will follow suit? Closing on a house purchase and mortgage with a plastic card, e-signatures for multi-million dollar transactions? You're the guy who didn't understand why people still use fax machines, aren't ya?Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Maybe e-ink and e-money is the future. Sort of leaves several people out, like the person who relies on cash tips, or the kid who can run a lemonade stand or curb-side car wash. Will we all need a smart phone with a credit card reader chip? Really?
If it worked on one it should work on the other, but although it would be neat if my card could tell me how I've spent, how much I have remaining, when my next payment is due and what the minimum payment is I'd worry about how the security/privacy implications that I haven't thought of might play out. For some reason having it on an eftpos card sounds great but on a credit card it sounds worrying. I think it's because I have greater control over my eftpos account than I do over my visa account.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Okay, I wish my bank did that 'cause that sounds very useful.Quote:
but I get free text messages if my spending goes above certain levels that I set, well below my limit.
Oh right, tipping. Goddammit I always forget about that. That does make cash harder to get rid of or makes things unfair for a large portion of your population.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Harder for any service population, really. We can give a cabbie our card with his tip, because cabs now have that e-ability. But what doorman or bellman wants to take a card? For that matter, who wants to have their tips on card instead of cash-in-hand, if they're working below minimum wage plus tips?
I suppose we could all agree to pay 20% more for certain services and leave out the tip, but that would just bring them up to a living wage. That's another political hot potatoe in the US....
And I have no idea what that would do to the VAT scheme.....:confused:
My kids take their lunches. They have money on account in case they want a salad or something, but they both find school lunches to be inedible and foul.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
I mean for everything for the school.Field trips, whatever. And yes, I object to having to write a check. They need to modernize. I mean, seriously. Most people pay all of their bills online, after they are delivered by e-bill. It's like the school system is stuck in the past.
edit: And incidentally, if your bank charges you a fee to use your fucking check card, change banks. There are any number of them that do not.
Funny, when I worked out at school that if we had 10 apples which we split between 5 people, I never actually had the apples to hand. Were they e-apples?Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
If there's one thing children lack it is not imagination.
I'm about to complete on buying a house and I can assure you that at NO point in the process were cheques involved. Nor would I want a multimillion dollar cheque. You can bet your bottom dollar I'd expect that to be done electronically!Quote:
Bully for you? :p Do you think large money exchanges will follow suit? Closing on a house purchase and mortgage with a plastic card, e-signatures for multi-million dollar transactions?
No I'm the guy who gets frustrated when people use faxes where email could work better.Quote:
You're the guy who didn't understand why people still use fax machines, aren't ya?
I'd call it the present let alone the future.Quote:
Maybe e-ink and e-money is the future.
You can leave electronic tips. Never seen a real life lemonade stand and if curb-side pests disappear - good!Quote:
Sort of leaves several people out, like the person who relies on cash tips, or the kid who can run a lemonade stand or curb-side car wash. Will we all need a smart phone with a credit card reader chip? Really?
Hi lolli, thought you'd get a kick out of the right-before-school-starts-memo I got from the district.
Poor kid, this announcement follows him/her from kindergarten to elementary to middle to high school. We already have a very large "peanut allergy" group that has their own tables in the cafeteria, and the school won't even offer peanut butter on the ala carte line.Quote:
We currently have a student attending xyz who is severely allergic to fish, shrimp, and shellfish products. This allergy is an airborne fish protein related allergy and is life-threatening to the student. Because the allergy is airborne related, the student may not be in any building if fish, including heated tuna, shrimp, or other shellfish products are served or packed in other students' lunches. Exposure to these foods could result in a life-threatening reaction for the student.
To protect the safety of this student, I am requesting that all xyz student lunches NOt contain fish, shrimp, or shellfish products. Tuna fish brought from home or served on the deli line is acceptable as long as it is not heated or cooked at school.
I greatly appreciate your assistance and understanding with this very serious matter.
etc etc
It's a strange request tho, since they don't let kids heat stuff up from home, not EVER. The students don't have access to any microwave or oven at all. Not sure why they didn't just say "We can no longer offer cooked fish plates on Fridays for our religious observers". :confused:
uhm, what? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Bully for you? Your closing had an e-chip reader so you didn't have to write a check? And you don't want a paper copy of this transaction? :eek:Quote:
I'm about to complete on buying a house and I can assure you that at NO point in the process were cheques involved. Nor would I want a multimillion dollar cheque. You can bet your bottom dollar I'd expect that to be done electronically!
You sir, have become an e-snob! :mad: We have lots of groups that make money in car washes, they are (ironically) often situated in bank parking lots. Right by the drive-up window where people are often driving away with cash in their dirty car. But the car-washers don't have e-readers or even charge a certain amount, just whatever cash the patron cares to give. Some people pay $50 for a crappy parking lot car wash, if they like the cause.Quote:
No I'm the guy who gets frustrated when people use faxes where email could work better.
I'd call it the present let alone the future.
You can leave electronic tips. Never seen a real life lemonade stand and if curb-side pests disappear - good!
EDIT and please do tell us how you can leave an e-tip to a doorman, bellman, or the guys at the airport who handle multiple suitcases in a rapid time frame? Or are you just a lousy tipper? :donkey:
Errr learning division ... Basic maths ...Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Err no. Electronic transfers, no card used either so far.Quote:
Bully for you? Your closing had an e-chip reader so you didn't have to write a check? And you don't want a paper copy of this transaction? :eek:
Is that a real business or beggars? Another advantage of no cash - no beggars :)Quote:
We have lots of groups that make money in car washes, they are (ironically) often situated in bank parking lots. Right by the drive-up window where people are often driving away with cash in their dirty car. But the car-washers don't have e-readers or even charge a certain amount, just whatever cash the patron cares to give. Some people pay $50 for a crappy parking lot car wash, if they like the cause.
If it's someone's job to carry cases, why tip them?Quote:
EDIT and please do tell us how you can leave an e-tip to a doorman, bellman, or the guys at the airport who handle multiple suitcases in a rapid time frame? Or are you just a lousy tipper? :donkey:
I was confronted by one of those 'baggage carriers' at a US Airport. No uniform, clearly didn't work for anyone and virtually threatened me if I didn't give $20 as he demanded. :rolleyes:
You do realize you can leave tips for doormen, bellmen, maids, and really awesome hotel bartenders when settling your bill checking out, don't you, Geegee?
Basic math is taught using manipulatives. We're talking kindergarteners and first or second graders here. Showing them a bank statement or starting out with e-money does not work so well. You didn't learn that way, now did you? :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
OH! So you haven't closed the deal yet? Well, come back after your official property closing, where you have to sign all the legal papers, and tell us all what both banks (seller, buyer) expected. I'm betting there are hard copies involved. Real paper signed in real ink, with some sort of prothonetary or notary public.Quote:
Err no. Electronic transfers, no card used either so far.
But maybe your barristers have agreed to a new digital way the US lawyers have not......we are such colonists still, huh?
E-snob you are. :donkey: Most of these groups are schools, their marching bands trying to buy new uniforms, or pay for a musical trip. Or charities/philanthropies like the Red Cross, Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity.Quote:
Is that a real business or beggars? Another advantage of no cash - no beggars :)
If it's someone's job to carry cases, why tip them?
You're mixing things up because you're not familiar with the US. Airport terminal baggage handlers will always have a uniform and won't demand a damn dime. :rolleyes:Quote:
I was confronted by one of those 'baggage carriers' at a US Airport. No uniform, clearly didn't work for anyone and virtually threatened me if I didn't give $20 as he demanded. :rolleyes:
Sure. But that won't follow us to our airport dealings. Those people have no idea where we've stayed, and we can't leave their tip on our card. You do realize that, don't you lolli?Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
Besides, in many cities with doormen or others, it's not from visitors that they make their tips. It's from the RESIDENTS.
In case you don't know what I mean....it's possible to leave tips to all these service people, in a hotel, on a cruise. But I had a really great experience at an airport with a baggage handler that noticed I was traveling with two kids, one an infant and one a toddler. The airline did not notice, even when I booked my flights and said "assistance may be needed". I had all this shit, suitcases, infant seat, stroller. Hell, the cabbie didn't notice either. :( But this ONE person was very helpful at the curb. He was an airline employee, and he was the best thing we could have hoped for.
He helped us out so much, checking and tagging certain things under cabin like the stroller, reducing our overall carry-on luggage, tagging everything and giving me receipts. He walked us to the gate, giving me tips along the way. He even asked the crew if our tickets were all together, with the infant seat and all that, since you can't have one of those in an exit row (but can make reservations on-line that end up that way). This guy was absolutely a gem. And I gave him a big fucking tip too, even though it never seemed like the tip was what he wanted. He was just a really helpful person. There's no way I could have tipped him with a card.
As someone who worked for many years in the service industry, I can tell you that tips left on cards are a pain in the ass!! Also, many times the person that served you does NOT get the entire tip, since they are often all added together then split between the servers. Plus, you sometimes don't get your tip until it's added onto your paycheck...and taxed like pay instead of tips!
The schools here don't use a card like was talked about here either. They also do not accept cash. Of course, whatever the cook made that day is what the kids get...no deli...no ala carte...no salad bar. Parents buy a lunch ticket, either weekly or monthly, that gets punched (yes, by a paper punch) each time the kid goes to the lunch room to eat. When it is all punched up, it is sent home with the kid, who gets no more school lunch until Mommy or Daddy send either cash or a check! Archaic, maybe. Practical, kind of. Fiscally responsible for school and parents, hell yes!
Uhm, tips should be taxed like pay.
No, tips are taxed based on total sales. That is a whole different tax structure, as I understand it. Of course, I've been out of the service industry for a while now, so maybe they have brought things more into line...at the expense of the minimum wage (and LESS than minimum wage) workers!Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
Line 7 of the IRS 1040 explicitly includes tips in earned income.
Can we consider CEO golden parachutes kinda like tips, and tax them accordingly? That might be kinda cool......Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
but you're not anal about money.....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggin
Heh, no, tips are supposed to be reported and taxed like pay if you get more than $20 in a month.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmunchkin
Golden parachute payments are taxed, though it might not be taxed like income depending on the form of compensation.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Oh, please, it's the most important fucking line in the most filled out tax form in America. It says it right on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT