You Bunch of Broken Freaks!

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Jesus instructed us to follow his lead, personally, and to spread the word. Your opposition to theocracy is very much in line with that, but wanting the government to hunt down and kill the x-box thief while at the same time being unwilling to do it yourself due to your Christian faith is a little schizophrenic. And what about voting? If you elect a government with the desire for it to do unchristian things on your behalf, come on. You think that's going to pass muster in your Judgement?

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Ah but you see the overall suffering will be decreased by the increase deterrence effect. This will help *more* people then by the government giving the thief a slap on the wrist. The very purpose of government is to keep people safe from internal and external threats. Government is a necessary evil, it is still an evil but the outcomes of anarchy are a greater evil. In this broken world sometimes you have to go with the lesser of two evils.

Of course I could be wrong however I believe if one is diligent about prayer and reading scripture and still gets it wrong I am positive God will be merciful as is promised. I don't think I am wrong. I think God understands the need for a government. Even if those governments are imperfect. Just like when Jesus heaped praise on a Roman Centurion, he understood that the Roman Centurion was a visible symbol of the Roman Empire that had done terrible things but Jesus did not require that he cease to be a Roman Centurion. (Or if he did it wasn't mentioned in the bible).

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Originally Posted by GGT

Agreed. But it's appealing to certain people, because it's black and white and straight forward. It's interesting (and confusing) to see where Libertarians draw the line with laws, in that sense. Less Laws = more freedom Then property rights present a complex and subjective set of variables. Example EPA --- don't have environmental protection laws for the common good, but if a factory pollutes drinking water upstream, sue them for damages after the fact. Presumption that the justice system works that way after the fact, and the simple threat of a law suit will keep that factory in line before the fact?

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I am no Libertarian, I'm liberal in the European meaning. I think Libertarians fail at the complexity of the real world in their approach. The few and clear laws approach sounds promising. It's like a hard but fair daddy that gives a child the limits of its freedom. But we are not children in a family, there are far more things to consider.

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That's why poverty and desperation is so insidious and dangerous. It can make a kid give up early. It can affect their forming conscience and morality of right and wrong. If they start out young feeling like a trapped victim, with not much future, then what the fuck....carpe diem....damn the torpedoes. :(

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Originally Posted by Being

Like I said, a paid vacation. You know what kinky stuff like that costs on the outside?

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IMO that is one of the biggest reason of the higher crime rate in the US. The live of the poorest is much harder. We give the poor a warm shower and a bed. We even give the Heroine if the follow the program. Of course there is crime, and there are still many that fall through the net, but there is a carrot not only a stick.

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Originally Posted by earthJoker

I am no Libertarian, I'm liberal in the European meaning. I think Libertarians fail at the complexity of the real world in their approach. The few and clear laws approach sounds promising. It's like a hard but fair daddy that gives a child the limits of its freedom. But we are not children in a family, there are far more things to consider.

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Even family units are not democracies. ;)

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Originally Posted by earthJoker

IMO that is one of the biggest reason of the higher crime rate in the US. The live of the poorest is much harder. We give the poor a warm shower and a bed. We even give the Heroine if the follow the program. Of course there is crime, and there are still many that fall through the net, but there is a carrot not only a stick.

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IMO we use just as many carrots, they just don't seem to trickle down to the people who need them.

Rapture isnt' either :p

Never played Bioshock, but it sounds sexist. :p

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Originally Posted by Being

IMO we use just as many carrots, they just don't seem to trickle down to the people who need them.

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There aren't too many carrots for a poor inner city kid. Their school drop out rates, arrest rates, and teen pregnancy rates are high. Their parents or communities may not be helpful, and the government social services are...all over the map.

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Originally Posted by Being

IMO we use just as many carrots, they just don't seem to trickle down to the people who need them.

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I hope you don't talk about the Amerikan dream thing. Because then you misunderstood my case. The carrot should be in this case, something people actually [i]cab[/n] reach not something they see on MTV. I like the German idiom better anyway (Sugarbread and the whip)

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Originally Posted by GGT

Never played Bioshock, but it sounds sexist. :p

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I found it interesting to have such a background story in a FPS.

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Originally Posted by GGT

There aren't too many carrots for a poor inner city kid. Their school drop out rates, arrest rates, and teen pregnancy rates are high. Their parents or communities may not be helpful, and the government social services are...all over the map.

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Did you miss the part where I said "they just don't seem to trickle down to the people who need them" ? Trickle Down...

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Originally Posted by earthJoker

I hope you don't talk about the Amerikan dream thing. Because then you misunderstood my case. The carrot should be in this case, something people actually [i]cab[/n] reach not something they see on MTV. I like the German idiom better anyway (Sugarbread and the whip)

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Our carrots are given to the wealthy to distribute as they see fit.

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Originally Posted by Being

Our carrots are given to the wealthy to distribute as they see fit.

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Ah, like development aid in Afrika :up:

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Originally Posted by Loki

Unfortunately, you do so on the basis of extremely ideological and uninformed beliefs, which means the outcome doesn't change.

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Why do you have to be such a dick all the time?

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Originally Posted by Being

Quotable Lem,

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Sweet call on the Lem quote. :up: Based on Nessus' endorsement I bought a few Lem books. HMV is Nessie's favorite. So I've been reading it and its easy to see why. Very thoughtful stuff, if dated. Actually, there's a lot of surprisingly relevant stuff there - which if you've read much dated sci-fi you will know is pretty uncommon.

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Originally Posted by GGT

Oh! So Choobie quoted Lem and went on a little rant about forumites? Lem's shock is Choobie's fuck you?

I still don't get it. He hasn't met anyone here as an entirely physical organism to say the spiritual side makes us a bunch of broken freaks, from how he imagined us.

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Everyone's broken. Without a community to right our creaks and moans and fill our gaps and counsel caution we'd self destruct. Cooperation is our greatest strength for lots of reasons. And no its not a fuck you. Sheesh! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Ah but you see the overall suffering will be decreased by the increase deterrence effect. This will help *more* people then by the government giving the thief a slap on the wrist. The very purpose of government is to keep people safe from internal and external threats. Government is a necessary evil, it is still an evil but the outcomes of anarchy are a greater evil. In this broken world sometimes you have to go with the lesser of two evils.

Of course I could be wrong (:heart: :up:) however I believe if one is diligent about prayer and reading scripture and still gets it wrong I am positive God will be merciful as is promised. I don't think I am wrong. I think God understands the need for a government. Even if those governments are imperfect. Just like when Jesus heaped praise on a Roman Centurion, he understood that the Roman Centurion was a visible symbol of the Roman Empire that had done terrible things but Jesus did not require that he cease to be a Roman Centurion. (Or if he did it wasn't mentioned in the bible).

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#1. This actually makes a lot of sense.

#2. I don't really agree with you entirely (really, how could I being that I don't believe in the christianity thing...?) but it makes sense. If God's out there, I think you have a pretty good argument come judgement.

#3. I still think those posts you make are whacked out (too much joy expressed - maybe if you were more solemn but still, of course, approving...) but I think I understand where you're coming form now.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Why do you have to be such a dick all the time?

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Have you read your own thread? You're not very good at applying the same standards for yourself as you do for others, are you? :confused:

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

You're all a bunch of wierd and annoying fuckers and, this is the mushy part, I'm so glad to know you. Seriously. Its been a pleasure. Mostly. :up:

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You're doing it wrong. :mad:

It's mostly been a pleasure. Mostly.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Have you read your own thread? You're not very good at applying the same standards for yourself as you do for others, are you? :confused:

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But he ended up by saying he loved us.

So go ahead ... tell us you love us. :mad:

edit: I reread. He was just glad to know us.

Sheesh.

Bastard :(

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Originally Posted by Loki

Have you read your own thread? You're not very good at applying the same standards for yourself as you do for others, are you? :confused:

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Dick. All the time.

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

You're doing it wrong. :mad:

It's mostly been a pleasure. Mostly.
But he ended up by saying he loved us.

So go ahead ... tell us you love us. :mad:

edit: I reread. He was just glad to know us.

Sheesh.

Bastard :(

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I :heart: NY. But you guys? Seriously?

Yeah, well ... it was the heat of the moment,
Telling me what my heart meant
the heat of the moment,
shown in your eyes.

I never meant to be so bad to you
One thing I said that I would never do
A look from you and I would fall from grace
And it would wipe the smile right from my face

Oh yeah? Well . . . .

i poured it on and i poured it out
i tried to show you just how much i care
i'm tired of words and i'm too hoarse to shout
but you've been cold to me so long
i'm crying icicles instead of tears

and all i can do is keep on telling you
i want you, i need you
but-there ain't no way i'm ever gonna love you
now don't be sad
'cause two out of three ain't bad
now don't be sad
'cause two out of three ain't bad

So what this boils down to is:

Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.

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Originally Posted by termite

So what this boils down to is:

Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.

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We all knew that, didn't we?

I think this cements choobie's solipsism. A couple of years ago, I had to ask what that meant, but he's a perfect example for a nimrod like me. :D

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Originally Posted by termite

So what this boils down to is:

Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.

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I'm not. You all are MY wierdo. :o

But seriously, everyone is fucked up one way or another and some more than most. Everyone knows only some of what they're talking about and the more certain they are, the bigger the liar or the more fucked up. I think, anyway. Oh, and also this is the heart of what makes people interesting.

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Originally Posted by GGT

We all knew that, didn't we?

I think this cements choobie's solipsism. A couple of years ago, I had to ask what that meant, but he's a perfect example for a nimrod like me. :D

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Well, you got the nimrod part right at least, though I 'd have used a synonym....

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Well, you got the nimrod part right at least, though I 'd have used a synonym....

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What synonym would that be to the solipsist?

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Originally Posted by GGT

What synonym would that be to the solipsist?

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Being a solopsist, this is all about me anyway. And, well, I like to keep the ugly truth from myself so as not to grow too depressed. That's what the universe is for, isn't it? To counter this achingly stark and complete isolation. To deceive myself in to believing there is something else, to pretend there is a point. I can't be honest then because it would kill me (us) (them) (we).

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

I don't believe in a theocracy. The private practice of a religious faith is seperate from government regulation.

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Ah, you're one of the "choose what I want"-Christians then. The ones which, as soon as a particular article of faith becomes uncomfortable, throw out everything which doesn't fit in their agenda. Even if their own lord saviour commanded them to.

Turn the other cheek? Show compassion? Get rid of the dependency on worldly belongings? Uncomfortable. And thus you'll find our Lewk Janus-headed. Saying he's a Christian and yet condoning all those deeds diametral to the core tenets of his belief.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

[...]Of course I could be wrong however I believe if one is diligent about prayer and reading scripture and still gets it wrong I am positive God will be merciful as is promised. I don't think I am wrong.[...]

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Yeah, Jesus had a special opinion on those all about praying and scripture. Read up on the story behind the Merciful Samaritan.

Kind of like who socialists who claim to want to help the poor, but refuse to help them unless everyone else does as well.

CHAMPAGNE SOCIALISTS

HYPOCRISY

SATANISM

Movie at 11, folks

You don't honestly see the difference between wanting to make changes to societal order and obeying the will and commands of the living God, the sole creator of the fucking Cosmos? Give me a break, Loki

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Originally Posted by Nessus

CHAMPAGNE SOCIALISTS

HYPOCRISY

SATANISM

Movie at 11, folks

You don't honestly see the difference between wanting to make changes to societal order and obeying the will and commands of the living God, the sole creator of the fucking Cosmos? Give me a break, Loki

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I believe Loki was taking a jab at me for supporting the construction of sensible social safety nets via government institutions rather than giving away all my personal wealth to churches and charities instead. (All dick, all the time - I think he can't help it :( ).

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Originally Posted by Nessus

CHAMPAGNE SOCIALISTS

HYPOCRISY

SATANISM

Movie at 11, folks

You don't honestly see the difference between wanting to make changes to societal order and obeying the will and commands of the living God, the sole creator of the fucking Cosmos? Give me a break, Loki

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Both are hypocritical. Yet you only attack Lew's hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

I believe Loki was taking a jab at me for supporting the construction of sensible social safety nets via government institutions rather than giving away all my personal wealth to churches and charities instead. (All dick, all the time - I think he can't help it :( ).

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What's stopping you and others like you from writing a check to the government?