Well said Lolli. If you want to clear your drive good luck to you. If you don't fair enough. But I don't know anyone for whom the footpath is a necessity.
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Well said Lolli. If you want to clear your drive good luck to you. If you don't fair enough. But I don't know anyone for whom the footpath is a necessity.
Right, so elderly people simply should stay put in their homes all winter long. Riiight.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Why does that statement absolutely not surprise me coming from a US-American? And then you wonder why your population is fat.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
If they'd rather choose to do that than be legally compelled to sweep the streets for you to be able to walk, yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
Your selfishness in thinking that 81 year olds should be forced to clear the path for you is unbelievable.
65 thousand dollars, Rand. Gold-plated pensions!!
Yes?
I don't think we need our pavements sweeping. But if Khen so desperately needs it doing for him I'd rather pay someone than have him make my 81 year old granddad kill himself doing it, that's sick, sick, sick.
But feel free to ignore me, I'm the selfish one here.
That's actually the starting salary just to watch people clean up subway stations, not actually do any cleaning. The starting range actually goes up quite a bit too. Hell, they've had a union labor analyst position (whatever that means) with a starting salary of $115,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
Keep your sidewalk clear or accept summary execution for setting foot on it. I hope to god you have the decency to hop over the sidewalk plot that you refuse to maintain :mad: goddamn entitlement generation, you just want rights and goods and shirk your obligations whenever and however you can :mad: :down:
here's how you do it. you take a fee from everyone to keep the sidewalks cleared. you waive the fee for old/retired folks. of course then someone will bitch about not having the option to waive the fee and clear their own sidewalk plot themselves, efficiency and economy be damned. idiocy.
but screw them, it's the best way to both keep the sidewalks cleared and the old people safe and comfortable.
A fee everybody has to pay - is that not a tax?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
During the recent snow I walked in the snow, whether it was my own plot or a neighbours. Nobody on my street "cleared" their part of the path but we were OK to walk in it. Kind of cool actually to see the footprints everywhere ... apart from the footprints that led to our murdered snowman :mad:. We built a snowman in the morning together, drove off then when we came back I said that the snowmans head had fallen off, Amanda said no he was attacked and pointed out the evidence - footprints onto our garden from the footpath then back onto the footpath and down the street. Murderers.
Perhaps I should have called 999 for the emergency services like this woman really did:
Genuine call to 999
Obviously, many posters here don't live in a "snow state". :bored:
Well dur dur dur, thanks for solving all our problems!Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Except that municipalities can't just wave a magic wand to dispense with lawsuit laws, can they? Otherwise, you'd have half the country having done that already.
Then that returns us to our original concern, if it's shovelled badly do you not then still have liability?
All I can share is my anecdote again: in my hometown you could be sued if you had shoveled and somebody slipped, but not if you didn't shovel at all. By making shoveling mandatory, you blocked lawsuits. Juries won't convict somebody who was "forced" to shovel.
My main question of Boston is why they are enforcing it so aggressively, which was never done in my home town.
Again I don't see how that blocks lawsuit, that's like saying you "force" a chef to wash his hands and if he doesn't wash his hands properly and people get sick they can't sue. By making it a legal requirement that surely ups, not lowers, the standard it has to be maintained at. I trip and fall on a badly-shovelled ground and know that the owner didn't properly do it as required - but can't sue? I trip and fall when someone has voluntarily tried to help but I can? That doesn't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by ']['ear
Again though I still don't see why an 81 year old man should be required to clear the streets for the likes of Khen to walk wherever they want.
That does not make any sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ']['ear
It does make sense from a legal standpoint. You are not as responsible for legally being forced to do something than if you did it yourself. There is probably a lot of case law to back this up, but even if there wasn't, as ']['ear said: 'a jury would not convict somebody who was "forced" to shovel'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
I have a bit of a problem with people having liability for something that doesn't belong to them, to be honest.
So it's better not to do something than to make an effort to make it it at least a bit better? That's just stupid.
Your lack of civic pride is disturbing.
clean walkways make for cleaner neighbourhoods, which is good for morale, reputation and in the end property-values
and indentured service? Hyperbole much, don't you think.
Well, like I said every place where I've been aware of the law, the homeowner actually owns the land the sidewalk is on, and hence the sidewalk. I know there are exceptions, don't know about the prevalence of the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
I own the land my sidewalk is on, and hence the sidewalk. No walk on the other side of the street, but if the city deemed it necessary the yards over there would have a walk put it, tough shit.
We are also, btw, talking about walks up to the house as well.
Totally agreed, I would be ashamed to fail in this. Judging from the people paying me to shovel when I was a kid, many others feel the same way. I know my elderly folks now have a standing request for shoveling from the guy who mows their yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan80
Yes, well.Quote:
and indentured service? Hyperbole much, don't you think.
Don't see a lack of civic pride in having snowQuote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan80
But we're not talking cleaning, we're talking snow.Quote:
clean walkways make for cleaner neighbourhoods, which is good for morale, reputation and in the end property-values
A bit, dead old people isn't hyperbole though. If you make octogenarians shovel there's something sick and twisted there. The idea of "get a neighbour" to do it doesn't work if the neighbours are all frail/sick/elderly.Quote:
and indentured service? Hyperbole much, don't you think.
Guess what? I've been frail/sick a lot lately. I hire somebody to do it. When I was in Seattle, on the couple times in snowed I shovelled the walks of my elderly neighbors on each side.
So why should the retired be compelled to pay somebody to clear something for the public interest, how is that fair?
Plenty of elderly are snow birds (migrating south for the winter). They're still responsible for their pubic walkway being shoveled and usable. That can mean finding charitable groups who do that sort of thing for elderly, just like grass-cutting or house painting. Last thing you'd want are pedestrians forced to walk in the street, when drifts and plowed snow can be 2-4 feet high, and drivers can't see them (especially little kids).Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Really? Plenty? Could you quantify that as a portion of the elderly population that need to remove snow? I'm thinking that you are overestimating the snowbird population. Anyway, if they are snowbirds, then they most likely do not need to worry about getting snow removed as $$$ is not really an issue for them...cause they, you know, have the $$$ to snowbird.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
We are talking about those that have limited means, the elderly that a few here are adamant that should have their retirement and medical paid for by us.
heated sidewalks or automatic snow-dispelling sidewalks, it's not difficult people.
Hubby and I actually were discussing the possibility of having heated roadways on highways so that black ice would no longer be a problem. (In regions where such a thing is common to happen)
I'm sure the logistics and price would never make it feasible though.
One of my ex girlfriend's family was from a rural part of Real America. We visited a relative once during Christmas who had a heated driveway, which I didn't quite understand because they were not wealthy at all.
It was nice and all to drive up with no ice on the driveway. But I didn't like having to honk repeatedly to get all the stray/neighborhood dogs to stop lying-down on the driveway enjoying the warmth.
It's funny how the usual suspects reject any kind of civic duty while at the same time they whine about 'the government's duty'.
Same reason they're compelled to manage long grass, weeds, and garbage (rodent control). Same reason they pay property taxes for street and highway snow removal, leaf sweeping and street cleaning --- it's all part of home ownership. If they live in apartments or condos, the landlord or property manager does those things for sidewalks and parking lots.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
It's also in the public interest to trim tree branches that obstruct fire truck street access; if it's on your property it's your responsibility. (Electric companies will trim trees if there's a utility right-of-way easement.) What's not fair about that?
PA has more seniors than any other state besides FL, last time I checked. Some of these snowbirds aren't wealthy, but live in city duplexes or mobile home parks....in two states. Absence doesn't remove responsibility for what's considered "normal maintenance and upkeep".Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldan Rath
If they have limited means (and heartless neighbors), boros and townships can hook them up with community groups who will shovel snow for free. Most seniors around here are pretty hardy (even stubborn) and want to shovel snow, as a matter of pride. When it's over a couple of inches, neighbors usually just take care of them that way.Quote:
We are talking about those that have limited means, the elderly that a few here are adamant that should have their retirement and medical paid for by us.
I remember being in the UK a while ago. We had this big storm that knocked down thousands of trees. Roads were blocked and power was down for a couple of days. Clearly the 'authorities' were not able to deal with the situation. What really surprised me though was the shocked reception I got from neighbours, when I got the chainsaw out of the garage and started chopping up trees that had fallen on the road in front of the house. They were like 'but the council should take care of that'.