I can try to look it up for you though I don't have a lot of time right now but there were several VP rallies where Palin rousted the crowd to the point some were calling for killing Obama and other violent acts. When video, i think, went public and she was getting a lot of criticism she toned down her rhetoric.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Steely, see my post above. The guy seems like a conspiracy nut, not a tea partier.
I certainly hope that's accurate.
The language used was fairly similar to that used by Beck. Should be interesting to see how much of an influence Beck had over this guy.
Late March 10Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
She announced this poster with the same "don't retreat, reload" twitter message thats already been complained about :noob:
...so? "Rousing a crowd" is different than "rousing a crowd to violence". Just because she gets people excited and some nutballs scream something doesn't mean she's inciting violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
This is really just people finding this incident a convenient way to say "told you so about 'dem Tea Partiers".
I just hope this serves as wake up call for Palin and people like her. They were damn lucky this was a random nutbar, and not a teabagger. I, personally, do not want America to be a country where "political assassination" is a phrase used in the context of domestic news, but that's the direction it was heading.
Haven't really seen a big "blame the Tea Party" response, but I am seeing a lot of this. The problem is with the talking heads, and their hateful and ignorant remarks to an equally ignorant following. Only connection is that the worst offenders (thread has already touched on Beck and Palin) happen to also be Tea Party supporters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
I don't remember if it was pre or post Obama election, but Palin was roundly criticized for her web site with gun cross-hairs for "targets" and using Don't Retreat, Reload as a slogan for Tea Party Express. She recently used that slogan during her TLC show, either during target practice for Bristol--or when she was whacking fish dead with a club--can't remember which. Point being that she wanted it both ways; harmless political rhetoric while using violent visuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
People were encouraged to show up at rallies with their weapons in full view, wearing Revolutionary garb. Not the greatest diplomatic decision, IMO, when the FBI was also fielding violent threats against congress and candidates, and one of Clinton's campaign HQ was damaged by gunfire....surely you remember all that.
Uh, exactly what non-violent use does a crosshair have?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
It's very commonly used to represent any kind of target or goal, and when used on graphs, charts, or maps, it almost never has violent connotations. The violent connotations only really arise when it's placed on the image or representation of a human.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
edit: I think any kind of assertion that Palin was trying to incite people to violence against democrats is overblown. The woman is stupid, not a psychopath.
Non-violent, like: this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
I fear that you're conflating all kinds of "crosshairs" and the particular kind of crosshair used by Palin. Because that one you'll be pretty hard pressed to find a non-violent connotation for (besides: A crosshair on a deer is non-violent as well?)
Not sure I understand what you are getting at. Is it somehow better that this is a pot-smoking, lucid dreaming psychopath, as opposed to a tea-party supporting psychopath? Are we really saying that one is preferable to the other? Do you think it's a consolation to those families who lost the ones they love?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Aren't all psychopaths bad?
I've seen many X-marks-the-spot on graphs, charts and maps. Not aware of any rifle scope cross-hairs until Palin.
Violent connotations can be associated with gun use. Example: human outline on the targets used at gun galleries. Violent connotations can be made without direct association of a human shape, by using certain language and icons together. Example: Freedom Fighters + images of guns, on a flag.
I don't think Palin intended to incite violence, and she is indeed stupid for not realizing the impact of certain political speech that appeals to violent extremists.
Incidentally, my belief is this is yet another example of our dysfunctional healthcare system that pooh-poohs mental illnesses. The shooter is obviously mentally ill. :(
I agree. A set of crosshairs on a map doesn't make people want to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
"We’re on Sarah Palin’s ‘targeted’ list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we’re in the cross-hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they’ve got to realize that there are consequences to that action."
-U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords, March 25, 2010
You mean one of the common visual symbols commonly for "target," like a bulls-eye? Well, since again it's a visual representation of the word target, I would look to non-violent uses of the word target. Would you like me to list some synonyms for target which clearly convey that it doesn't necessarily mean violence? Should I be using it in a sentence? Maybe I should point out that the same attempt to insist her use of "target" promoted violence also attempted to interpret the word "fire," clearly used in a job-termination sense, as being another call for shooting Democratic politicians in the head?Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
Wow, that video made me shiver. :(
I agree with her: leaders should condemn hate speech and threats when they appear, even covert or carefully "massaged" threats. The Tea Party should be more vocal condemning the homophobes, racists, and fear mongerers hiding in plain view among their ranks, and throw them out. Republicans should be more adamant about denouncing the extremists they attract, including the damn Birthers.
Is it too late to expect Fox News to re-think their business model?
To Fuzzy: there's a difference between bullseye and cross-hairs. We have Target (the store) using a bullseye, and we hear the word "target" used in business and daily life all the time. We have politicians using "war words" all the time. Even the word threat is used frequently. None of that makes me think of shooting a gun. But a scope cross-hair does.
I don't play shooter video games, so is this some benign symbol I don't know about? :noob:
Yes, an excellent example of "have you stopped beating your wife" political rhetoric. If the people running the ad/campaign try to rebut, then the political conversation has been turned away from where they wanted it, and the allegation that the campaign is promoting violence is what will stick in people's heads. And if no rebuttal is offered then the people in those focused seats can keep on banging that drum all they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Whatever Dread, your opinion was made Up well before I tried to tell you this went back to the last presidential election. Goes prt in parcel with your slide to the right wing, so I see no point in arguing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Its more careless exploitation than intent. Her problem is stupidity, not evil machinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
Clinton's campaign HQ? The Tea Party in the 2008 election before it ever existed? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
It's an expression. One that can be misinterpreted, but who hasn't said or heard "I'm in his/her crosshairs over ____" in casual conversation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
My mind was made Up? Why does that need to be capitalized? What is this grave judgement I have made when I say that it's too soon to judge?Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Come on, snap out of it.
||P, new paragraph still has meaning, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
After the "violence" during the '08 election, it takes a particularly dense or clueless person and/or political party to continue rhetoric that can incite "the violent crazy fringe".
Do you agree, or not?
What the hell? I'm not a fan of Palin (I'd like to see Romney or Jindal win in 2012) but how is having targets on cities in anyway related to violence? Thats absolutely retarded. Yes they are targets in terms of political races. Palin has never endorsed, condoned or supported violence in anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Hmm, is that kinda like you saying you've never endorsed, condoned or supported violence in any way, and you just happen to create threads hailing people who shoot toothpaste thieves (in the back), or anyone who shoots first and asks questions later, as heroes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Well for one thing, I'm not Palin.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
And I do endorse violence against criminals in the defense of home and property. If my posts somehow influence people to violently defend their homes, well that would be sweet. But we both know that's not going to happen.
“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us...r.html?_r=1&hp
If you read the rest of the piece, you'll see the guy had significant mental problems and had them long before the Tea Party came into existence. People really should refrain from using this tragedy to take political cheap shots.
I wasn't here during the midterm elections, so you'll have to forgive me for not knowing if this has been discussed or not, but did Obama receive this much flack for calling Republicans 'enemies'?
Isn't this just the nature of politics, certainly nothing to, pardon the pun, get up in arms about?
Hope and change. :downcast:
Some of us did mention mental illness. :bored:
And it's not a "political cheap shot" to call out political leaders who hire campaign aides, promotional advisors, and marketers very savvy at using language or creating slogans. Feigning surprise at this point is lame.
The Tea Party is just a new word for right-wing extremism, because their leadership didn't want to kick out the homophobes, racists, birthers, or fanatic gun owners in their ranks.