Same sex marriage

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Originally Posted by Hazir

And this is relevant how ?

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I dislike inaccurate absolutist declarations.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

I dislike inaccurate absolutist declarations.

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Pi is exactly three! :noob:

You know, I've got nothing against religious fundamentalists, the only problem I have with them is that they can't seem able to keep their sex-life within the confines of their own bedroom. It's disgusting how they incessantly have to rub everybody's nose in it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan80

and could you refrain from comparing homosexuality to bestiality? It makes you look dumber than saudi religious leaders, assuming such a thing is possible. If not, it makes you look just as dumb as them.

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Homosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, and adultery sex are all forms of sexual behavior I lump together as sexual behavior that shouldn't be done. If I went off comparing homosexuality to adultery then it wouldn't pack the same punch.

What exactly do you want me to compare a sinful behavior to in a debate? Should it just not be compared to anything? I disagree with that notion because comparisons help illustrate a point.

At the end of the day my position has been consistent and clear.

1. I think gay relations is wrong.
2. I don't think it should be outlawed.
3. I don't think the government should show a preference to heterosexual couples over homosexual couples over singles.
4. I don't think the government should indoctrinate people to believe one way or another about homosexual relationships.

This puts me FAR and away from Muslim extremists who deny gays live in their country (Iran) to *executing* people for being gay.

Hell, it puts me far and way to most social conservatives hear state side.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Why should non-governmental agencies give legal priority to spouses? Why not just have people state who they want to handle their crap if they become incapacitated or die?

And absolutely I would get rid of court houses doing marriage licenses. It shouldn't be a government concern how people live their life! Protect people from external and internal threats. Have a legal system for contract disputes. Beyond that, stop telling people how to live and ALL of this meaningless debate about what is or isn't marriage goes away.

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There are several ways for people to "state" who handles their crap if they become incapacitated or die---#1 is legal marital status, followed by next-of-kin (minor children are excluded in favor of adult parents or siblings), Power of Attorney, and sometimes Executors of Estates. These are all legally defined relationships.

You need to explain why any religious ceremony should trump those legal relationships/contracts.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Homosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, and adultery sex are all forms of sexual behavior I lump together as sexual behavior that shouldn't be done. If I went off comparing homosexuality to adultery then it wouldn't pack the same punch.

What exactly do you want me to compare a sinful behavior to in a debate? Should it just not be compared to anything? I disagree with that notion because comparisons help illustrate a point.

At the end of the day my position has been consistent and clear.

1. I think gay relations is wrong.
2. I don't think it should be outlawed.
3. I don't think the government should show a preference to heterosexual couples over homosexual couples over singles.
4. I don't think the government should indoctrinate people to believe one way or another about homosexual relationships.

This puts me FAR and away from Muslim extremists who deny gays live in their country (Iran) to *executing* people for being gay.

Hell, it puts me far and way to most social conservatives hear state side.

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You're trying to *pack some punch* in your posts, that much is clear. No one is asking you what's "sinful" according to your personal religious beliefs, but what should be legally recognized. #3 would mean you don't expect your own marriage to be honored in a court of law, but instead have created other legal documents giving your "church wife" full and legal power over your incapacitation/death.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Homosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, and adultery sex are all forms of sexual behavior I lump together as sexual behavior that shouldn't be done.

1. I think gay relations is wrong.

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You think gay relations are wrong because you're an idiot. An idiot that is parroting the words that a different idiot made years ago.

Here is one reason why you shouldn't try your hand at comparisons. Everything you listed lacks the important moral/social/legal aspect of mutual consent between adults and no victims. Oh, except for homosexual relations :noob:
Not that I expect morals or consent make much sense to nuts like you.

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Here is one reason why you shouldn't try your hand at comparisons. Everything you listed lacks the important moral/social/legal aspect of mutual consent between adults and no victims. Oh, except for homosexual relations :noob:

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To be fair in this discussion, firstly he didn't say they were all wrong for the same reason, secondly he only linked them because of the common factor of being sexual and wrong. The can all be grouped as sexual activities, and to Lewk, and many Christians, can be grouped in the group of wrong activities. He did not claim they are wrong for the same reasons the other sexual activities are wrong (adultry also has two consenting adults) but is wrong for other reasons than say rape. He's not comparing them just putting them both in the group of sexually wrong activities.

Secondly, you might be right that he shouldn't think of Homosexuality as wrong, perhaps, but you shoudl at least give him credit that for all intents and purposes he supports allowing homosexuality in society. That's a big leap for someone of his upbringing, and basically it means you or anyone else can have heterosexual or bi-sexual sex in Lewk's world. I think that's actually a rare common ground for you guys. He has other views that are ridiculous (mostly punishement oriented, which I can't see how he'll recogncile before God), but on this topic effectually he's very much on your side.

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Originally Posted by GGT

There are several ways for people to "state" who handles their crap if they become incapacitated or die---#1 is legal marital status, followed by next-of-kin (minor children are excluded in favor of adult parents or siblings), Power of Attorney, and sometimes Executors of Estates. These are all legally defined relationships.

You need to explain why any religious ceremony should trump those legal relationships/contracts.



You're trying to *pack some punch* in your posts, that much is clear. No one is asking you what's "sinful" according to your personal religious beliefs, but what should be legally recognized. #3 would mean you don't expect your own marriage to be honored in a court of law, but instead have created other legal documents giving your "church wife" full and legal power over your incapacitation/death.

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Well, I think not having the state recognize religious ceremonies would be a solution. I just think that our religious friends would have some problems wrt to parenting rights and property rights if they break up their relationships.

In Turkey there is an institution called 'imam nikah', it's a marriage performed by an imam and socially accepted as a marriage between a man and a woman. The state however does not attribute anything to a person on the basis of him/her having such a religious union. For the state to consider you married you have to be married by the state.

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

You think gay relations are wrong because you're an idiot.

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Hey pot, stop insulting the kettle. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hazir

...For the state to consider you married you have to be married by the state.

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Makes sense. Which is why the religious folks here are trying so hard to keep states (or the nation) from legally recognizing same-sex marriage. In their minds, government should reflect Judeo-Christian values. Secular governance would mean taking the USA into evil European SSSocialism, or something. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Makes sense. Which is why the religious folks here are trying so hard to keep states (or the nation) from legally recognizing same-sex marriage. In their minds, government should reflect Judeo-Christian values. Secular governance would mean taking the USA into evil European SSSocialism, or something. :rolleyes:

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It would be quite a stretch to call Turkey evil socialist.

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Originally Posted by Hazir

It would be quite a stretch to call Turkey evil socialist.

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The marriage ceremony itself is meaningless. You need to have the officiant file paperwork with the county clerk. So it looks like the situation is the same as in Turkey.