Is not paying for parking a moral transgression?

The reason was implicit in the part about unnecessarily exposing yourself to risk of harm :mad:

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Originally Posted by wiggin

Also, teach, is there any way I could do some... extra credit? I'd do anything to improve my grades.

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This is morally wrong :mad: and possibly illegal

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Originally Posted by wiggin

Also, teach, is there any way I could do some... extra credit? I'd do anything to improve my grades.

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Bad touch, bad touch!

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Originally Posted by Aimless

This is morally wrong :mad: and possibly illegal

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How do you think I got to where I am today? Studying?

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Originally Posted by wiggin

If you'd like an actual answer: I think in general we should do our best to follow the law, and that this is a moral imperative... even if the law is pretty silly. I particularly feel that way with respect to the government's ability to regulate common goods (e.g. parking spaces and roads) and raise revenues for providing common goods (e.g. taxes, fines, parking levies, etc.). Even if the impact is fairly small, I personally believe that to flout such laws leads to a culture of impunity.

I do make exceptions to this general rule, though, so wouldn't say it applies universally: see my discussion above re: laws that are inherently immoral or which are widely disregarded.

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Fun fact: I actually did pay on the specific occasion I was referencing.

Why? Well, I actually thought there was a semi-descent chance a warden might turn up and I'd get a fine. Though there probably wasn't - it was raining and a Sunday. The other reason was that it felt like it was a "proper" carpark, near the park and within walking distance of the shops therefore something I really ought to pay for using. On the other hand, closer to home is the local supermarket where I do usually skip paying unless I actually spot a guy in a hat wandering round looking at people's windscreens. Obviously I agree with you to an extent about some car parks but not others. And yet legally and morally they're surely both the same? Perhaps there's more stopping a culture of impunity than people not floating minor laws?

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Also, teach, is there any way I could do some... extra credit? I'd do anything to improve my grades.

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Ok, that's weird.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

And yet legally and morally they're surely both the same? Perhaps there's more stopping a culture of impunity than people not floating minor laws?

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I'm not sure I correctly parsed that last sentence, but one could definitely make the argument that not all parking situations are identical, though it would require quite a bit of backing and filling. In general, though, I find it best just to follow all but the most widely-flouted laws.

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Ok, that's weird.

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You don't know, maybe I'm a gorgeous blonde who just desperately needs some one-on-one tutoring.

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Originally Posted by wiggin

I'm not sure I correctly parsed that last sentence

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Well, I put next to no effort into it or expressing myself clearly, sooo

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You don't know, maybe I'm a gorgeous blonde who just desperately needs some one-on-one tutoring.

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PRO-TIP: do not get your weirdo kicks pretending to be a 16 year old girl on the same forum that you posted a thread about your wifes career dilemma. How did that work out, by the way?

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

PRO-TIP: do not get your weirdo kicks pretending to be a 16 year old girl on the same forum that you posted a thread about your wifes career dilemma. How did that work out, by the way?

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Heh, we live in Massachusetts, I could still be a hot blonde. Though I'll admit that moniker rather more closely matches my wife than me. Ahem. Moving on...

She took the new job, just started today. No hard feelings at the old place, they understood it was a fantastic opportunity for her, and she made sure to stay on long enough to transition projects and training to other people.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Ok, I'm doing grades now.

GGT gave an answer but no reason, then went on about some kind of anecdote do with reality TV I think. E
Basically, you were all crap. wiggin had the highest grade and he is like a professor or something, I think?

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You didn't say it was a graded test! :p


*No wardens seem to be about
~You should still follow the rules, even when no one is watching. Maybe especially when no one is watching. 'Honesty is a virtue'.


*Machine does not give change and I don't have the exact amount*
~ You should still pay and lose some pithy change. No parking machine gives refunds for un-used time, either. Rules are rules, laws are laws. You don't get to cherry-pick which ones are convenient. 'Integrity is its own reward'.

Those are the only choices that have a moral dilemma. The others are just related to laziness and, unless you consider sloth to be a moral transgression, aren't really about moral choices.

My anecdotes were about the schemes used by parking authorities (including private) simply to get revenue. Giving tickets on minute 16 of a 15 minute zone, towing a car for being 19 1/2 feet (instead of 20 feet) from a crosswalk, that type of thing. Those can be "moral transgressions" from the other side of parking.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

RandBlade gave answers but no reasons, then uses the thread to moan about his incredibly shitty neighborhood, which was used, after suitable gentrification, for shooting on location scenes in Threads, a harrowing 1980s BBC drama about the aftermath of nuclear war. E
Loki accused RandBlade of dealing drugs. D

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Firstly its not my neighbourhood (not disagreeing on the incredibly shitty though, that place is a dump). But Loki gets a higher grade for that? :o

Anyway I did give a reason, those who provide a good service and pay for it should get paid back. Those who just try and take payments from the backs of others should not :o

My moral compass must be slightly bent compared to some of yous guys then.

I've always been of the opinion that it ain't a crime until you get caught.

So with that in mind, my answer would be thusly:

If the land is owned by people who are a. The council, b. Serial clampers, I would pay up.

If it's private land and you're just gonna get a ticket on your windscreen/in the post from some private body, I would laugh, loudly, as I throw the legally unenforceable ticket in the bin and get on with my life.

Pay or not, people who try to charge you for parking on a Sunday are going to hell anyway.

edit: the reason why I would do what I would do is because I have made a reasoned choice based on what I believe I can get away with.

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Originally Posted by DecoyMilk

I've always been of the opinion that it ain't a crime until you get caught.

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So Mexican drug lords aren't criminals? :p

They are caught in absentia

Alright, art thieves who are never caught then :p

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Originally Posted by Flixy

So Mexican drug lords aren't criminals? :p

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No, they're not drug lords.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Under the following conditions, is it morally wrong to skip paying for parking?

• No wardens seem to be about
• Machine does not give change and I don't have the exact amount
• I don't feel like paying
• Machine is all the way over there
• It's raining
• I won't be there long anyway

Give reasons for your answer.

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I don't own a car, I have never not paid for parking as far as I can remember. And no, I don't think it's immoral not to pay for it.