After Obama reelection, Murray Energy CEO reads prayer; layoffs

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Originally Posted by Flixy

I mostly mock his prayer and making it a big political thing from the OP, and Papa John for making a similarly big thing - it just makes it seem like a tantrum. Besides, those costs are in the future so why let them go now, days after the election?

Also if it was such a valid business decision he would have fired them ages ago, since apparently they aren't needed. Not to mention the fact that other pizza places have the same issue and aren't throwing a tantrum.

Also, saying more ethical, meh, did you read the OP? Bolded part doesn't read 'ethical' to me.

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I was referring to Papa Johns not the OP sorry for any confusion. As for why act now, because now the future is clearer and its the responsibility of business to plan for the future.

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Originally Posted by EmperorNorton

Actions that come at the expense of the employees, regardless. They're still indirectly supporting shittier pay and fewer hours simply because it'll cost poor Johnny pennies more for his pizza, and RABBLERABBLERABBLE OBAMACARE.

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If the government encourages shittier pay and fewer hours then don't be surprised when that happens. Its not PJ's fault that they're open and honest about it. If the alternative is bankruptcy and making everyone redundant then its the right decision.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

http://www.forbes.com/sites/calebmel...bamacare-math/

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I'd wager there's many PJ's franchises making a profit margin less than that 11-14 cents/pie.

That link also says that he didn't say he wanted his company to cut hours to avoid paying, rather that he said he suspects many companies will do so. Very different.

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Schnatter has further claimed that some employers will cut employee hours to avoid providing them with healthcare.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

I'd wager there's many PJ's franchises making a profit margin less than that 11-14 cents/pie.

That link also says that he didn't say he wanted his company to cut hours to avoid paying, rather that he said he suspects many companies will do so. Very different.

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It was not stated in THAT particular article, but it has been noted elsewhere.

http://www.eurweb.com/2012/11/papa-j...-of-obamacare/

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Papa John’s CEO, John Schnatter, told his employees that he would start cutting their hours because Obama care costs his franchise too much money to provide health care coverage to all their employees that work over 30 hours.

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/11...-to-obamacare/

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The CEO of popular pizza chain Papa John's says his employees may face reduced hours and he expects his business costs to rise because President Obama's re-election most likely insures the president's health care reform law will be implemented in full.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

I'd wager there's many PJ's franchises making a profit margin less than that 11-14 cents/pie.

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Maybe, but then it would be said franchise's decision, not the CEO, no? As I understand this would not even affect franchises, since they can manage their own employees as they want?


Link also says it's talking about 5-8 million costs (according to him, even), on more than a billion in revenue. I think it's fair to say that Obamacare is negligible compared to things like gas and food prices. On which issues I have yet to see him make a stampede. So yes, I do mock his tantrum, thankyouverymuch, and not because I don't think multinationals are a valuable thing.

Also, I'm curious whether he donated more or less than 8 million to the GOP with his business :p Not that it's relevant, of course.

The president doesn't control food and gas prices, does he? This is self-imposed.

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Originally Posted by Loki

The president doesn't control food and gas prices, does he? This is self-imposed.

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You are saying that the government in all its complexities has no influence on those? Right.

I guess there are no gas taxes, environmental regulations that affect agriculture, etc...

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Originally Posted by Loki

I don't think you realize how business works.

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http://www.billlosey.com/articles/ho...l-business.php

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Originally Posted by Flixy

I guess there are no gas taxes, environmental regulations that affect agriculture, etc...

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In an ideal world...

They're knocking, and some people always listen

The vast, vast majority of rivals to PJ's will hire less than 50 employees.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

The vast, vast majority of rivals to PJ's will hire less than 50 employees.

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Hard to compare - the bigger chains have more name recognition, people will go to their site quicker to order. I mean, over here the big chains have grosser pizzas at higher prices, but still exist. They must have something going on. :p

Indeed, but they struggle to compete with smaller companies that don't comply with laws. To have a law like this that doesn't even apply to the vast majority of the industry puts them at a further disadvantage. Its been claimed in this thread their rivals will have to do this too - that's just not true.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

Maybe, but then it would be said franchise's decision, not the CEO, no? As I understand this would not even affect franchises, since they can manage their own employees as they want?


Link also says it's talking about 5-8 million costs (according to him, even), on more than a billion in revenue. I think it's fair to say that Obamacare is negligible compared to things like gas and food prices. On which issues I have yet to see him make a stampede. So yes, I do mock his tantrum, thankyouverymuch, and not because I don't think multinationals are a valuable thing.

Also, I'm curious whether he donated more or less than 8 million to the GOP with his business :p Not that it's relevant, of course.

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I'm sorry but who cares what gross revenue is? What matters for evaluating new costs is their effect on net. Papa Johns runs to some 80-90 million dollars profit a year, which would now be cut *according to the suggested figures* by 5-8 million

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Indeed, but they struggle to compete with smaller companies that don't comply with laws. To have a law like this that doesn't even apply to the vast majority of the industry puts them at a further disadvantage. Its been claimed in this thread their rivals will have to do this too - that's just not true.

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Well, I suspect my local pizza place does some money laundering, possibly dealing on the side, so it's not really fair to compare any normal business to them :p

And if PJ's Head Office is losing ~10% of its profit margin unless it takes action (according to the suggested figures) you can bet that figure is going to be higher for many franchises. Which if they close will then have a disproportionate affect on corporate profitability and employee employment. And in a franchise-based system like that it is the duty of a good CEO to look at how it will affect all sides of the brand.

I have absolutely no idea how PJ's American runs itself but it wouldn't surprise me if most PJ employees (while probably being covered by this law) are not directly employed by Corporate.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

Well, I suspect my local pizza place does some money laundering, possibly dealing on the side, so it's not really fair to compare any normal business to them :p

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I suspect almost all independents of being less than honest with the law. My local one when I was a student served some interesting lets say herb-based side orders if you asked for them ;). PJ's may not be the best company, but I suspect they're far more compliant with the both the letter and spirit of the law than 99% of their rivals.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

I'm sorry but who cares what gross revenue is? What matters for evaluating new costs is their effect on net. Papa Johns runs to some 80-90 million dollars profit a year, which would now be cut *according to the suggested figures* by 5-8 million

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I know, meant to put it into context with other expenses, that he does not complain about. Not to show that he wasn't right to complain, and to react to it, but to answer Rand's question of why I mock him.

But that's the reality of running a business Flixy. When such high costs as a percentage of your revenue are totally unavoidable, then you need to take ever action to reduce avoidable waste. In that atmosphere, this (in his opinion) unnecessary expenditure could fall under that. Especially given, unlike Norton's claims that most rivals won't face it.

Some costs you need to accept, but then some costs you nail every cent you can. That's the industry he's in.

Sure, but you don't think declaring it like this is anything but a publicity stunt?

Its quite horrendous publicity. I'd be horrified if I had anything to do with PJ's.

Ditto. The guy seems like a nutjob.

A nutjob, running, managing, organizing? Demanding respect and obedience? Where have we seen this character before? The petulant self-affirmations, the barking? Oh, I think we know...

This forum?

There are worlds beyond this one, no matter how willing we are to forget some of them

The real reason is that coal is less and less economical because of the price of natural gas. Was he hoping for Romney coal subsidies?

Edit: And Murray and/or his secretary need glasses. That's "LED", not "lead". Obama responsible for their F in grammar, too?

Papa Johns hours are already structured in a manner that only 1 out of 3 employees are offered to take part in their healthcare insurance. He seems to be blowing a bunch of smoke at this point.

I'm surprised its as many as 1/3.

However even then I'd think his figures would be based on that proportion.

Papa John's is also giving away one million pies during some sports-propaganda ploy. (NBA?)

What a crappy CEO. Ten cents per pizza sounds like a pretty good deal to get their employees healthcare, and something customers might even support. Well, if they had a better pizza than competitors to begin with, which they don't.

"Sports-propaganda ploy"?

I think the word you're looking for is Marketing :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

"Sports-propaganda ploy"?

I think the word you're looking for is Marketing :rolleyes:

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Then I'll reiterate: he's a crappy CEO. He could have used ten fucking cents per pizza as a better marketing tool, than giving away one million free pizzas, or buying those multi-million dollar TV advertisements.

Yeah, because lowering the price about something while most people have no idea what you're doing is a great idea. Stop assuming you're better at every job than people who do it. It's getting tiring.