Is Earth F**ked?

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Originally Posted by Nessus

As a scientist, I disagree.

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If not science then what?

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

If not science then what?

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Your faith in science is akin to the child who believes in Santa. I do not see much utility in discussing the depths of Santa with you.

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History from the Reformation onwards is that each century is improved on the one before it. Can you please demonstrate a single reason why that would be reversed over the next hundred years?

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And history before the reformation onwards, it was, at best, flat. Can you please demonstrate a single reason why we should simply assume that this trend will continue indefinately into the future?

While I don't endorse the catastrophy fetishisation present in this thread, it seems to mean an equal folly to simply assume that some ineffable historical law now means the trends of the past centuries will continue forever into the future.

It's funny how the narrative on the gloomy side is that it's science and our ever-increasing life-expectancy that'll ultimately doom us. The earth is fucked, its future pregnant with dark gassy promise

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

If not science then what?

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See sig for details

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

And history before the reformation onwards, it was, at best, flat. Can you please demonstrate a single reason why we should simply assume that this trend will continue indefinately into the future?

While I don't endorse the catastrophy fetishisation present in this thread, it seems to mean an equal folly to simply assume that some ineffable historical law now means the trends of the past centuries will continue forever into the future.

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Not "forever" but in the near future (barring lax liberal attention to the war on terror) human progress will continue to advance and doomsday scenarios will be laughed at in 30 years. And.... yet more doomsday scenarios will be spun.

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Your faith in science is akin to the child who believes in Santa. I do not see much utility in discussing the depths of Santa with you.

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So mean!

I think you have to thank both science (industrial revolution mainly) and capitalism for the average wealth increase (which led to greater average lifespan), and then thank science twice for making their be worthwhile things to buy in regards to medicine (which even further increased lifespan).

We should thank science, capitalism, and to some degree the redistrubution of wealth/social safety-nets.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Not "forever" but in the near future (barring lax liberal attention to the war on terror)

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Ah yes, people with underwear bombs, the greatest threat to civilisation we have ever known :bulb: baaa, baaa

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Originally Posted by Aimless

Ah yes, people with underwear bombs, the greatest threat to civilisation we have ever known :bulb: baaa, baaa

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I think you ignore the societal effect that these attacks can bring.

See: Patriot Act. (which in not all that patriotic)

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Originally Posted by Veldan Rath

I think you ignore the societal effect that these attacks can bring.

See: Patriot Act. (which in not all that patriotic)

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However that is almost exactly the opposite of what lewk was thinking... Ya dirty librul

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

No it's because of science.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

If not science then what?

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Science advancements and R & D costs money. Access to modern medicine costs money.
Knowledge is redistributing wealth of information, and that education costs money.

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Originally Posted by Lebanese Dragon

I think you have to thank both science (industrial revolution mainly) and capitalism for the average wealth increase (which led to greater average lifespan), and then thank science twice for making their be worthwhile things to buy in regards to medicine (which even further increased lifespan).

We should thank science, capitalism, and to some degree the redistrubution of wealth/social safety-nets.

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That's what I meant. :up: But especially the public programs....that require tax dollars.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

So goes the title of the paper/ talk scheduled for tomorrow at the annual American Geophysical Union meeting. Essentially the point is that sustainability in our civilization is impossible. Full title and blurb about it from Science:
IMHO I have two responses:
#1. It's not about "Earth", it's about human civilization. But I recognize that most people think of the two as one in the same, so whatever.
#2. I've resigned myself to the reality that "yes, human civilization is fucked" for quite a while now.
Comments? Thoughts? What do you guys think? Are we, or our offspring anyway, fucked?

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All the problems of civilization can be tracked back to finances.
* Wars are cock fights where the poor put the casualties, the middle class put the money and a few people make tons of money.
* Economic crises are rushed by big speculators that artificially alter prices by allocating or deallocating huge amounts of money in a certain market. This creates prices changes. Inflation makes people to lose buying power, deflation causes unemployment.
* Poverty is not about logistics of food or overpopulation. 25% of US grains are used to feed cars while about 700 million starve in the world. Hunger is caused by the lack of access to money. And of course nothing has been done to grant poor access to money. Charity gives them bits of food, not access to a source of money so they can buy their own food. money that is printed in a QE is not given to the poor, or even the Americans. It is given to bankers.

We have 400 years of having the same crisis over and over.
If you dig in detail in history, you will find that if you replace houses with stocks, you move from 2008 to 1929.