Millions of Tons of Water Ice found at Moon's Pole

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03-03-2010, 06:38 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraith

We're going to need He3 at about the same time that we manage to get something started on the moon. Even without that, the moon also works as a great solar power collector. Drop a bunch of panels down (they can be constructed entirely on the moon from the resources there) and beam the energy back to earth with microwaves.

More likely we'd build orbital satellite components on the Moon and launch from there to orbit the Earth in a position they can be lit more or less 24/7. The moon's got a 14 day night so that's an awful lot of down time for your very very expensive electricity generating equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar81

And China? I bet they will make a factory there before they build a base. Products will read "Made on the moon"...:D

I know you're joking, but consider the novelty marketing potential.... Some day. Not in our life time, but some day. Maybe.

Quote:

Digging a patch of lunar surface roughly three-quarters of a square mile to a depth of about 9 ft. should yield about 220 pounds of helium-3--enough to power a city the size of Dallas or Detroit for a year.

Except that we don't yet know how to make electricity by fusing He3. How many chickens we got in them thar eggs? Dunno, they ain't hatched yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessus

Are you shitposting again? I can't tell

Flying on the moon? Read about it somewhere in some Popular Mechanics style futurism bull shit article. If you consider you'll weight 1/6 there but have the same muscle power you earned down here, why would you not be able to flap a set of wings and take off? Its worth a try at least, no?

With all that water, someone's going to make a swimming pool eventually. Imagine the splash you'll make with your precision cannon ball. :D
03-03-2010, 06:39 PM
Nessus

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Flying on the moon? Read about it somewhere in some Popular Mechanics style futurism bull shit article. If you consider you'll weight 1/6 th there but have the same muscle power you earned down here, why would you not be able to flap a set of wings and take off? Its worth a try at least, no?

There's...There's no atmosphere on Luna
03-03-2010, 06:43 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessus

There's...There's no atmosphere on Luna

#1. I edited above.

#2. Please see my original post on moon flying:

Quote:

I wouldn't want to live there. Probably a cool place to visit though. Gravity's low enough you could strap on wings and fly given a large enough enclosure. Who wouldn't think that was fun?

By "large enclosure" I mean a big dome or large underground chamber.
03-03-2010, 06:44 PM
Nessus

Oh. Well domes that big would be very impractical, though I admit I missed that bit of your post.
03-03-2010, 06:47 PM
Being
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessus

There's...There's no atmosphere on Luna

Sure there is. The molecules are just very far apart from each other.
Quote:
The average daytime abundances of the elements known to be present in the lunar atmosphere, in atoms per cubic centimeter, are as follows:

Argon: 40,000

Helium: 2,000-40,000

Sodium: 70

Potassium: 17

Hydrogen: less than 17
03-03-2010, 06:48 PM
Wraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

More likely we'd build orbital satellite components on the Moon and launch from there to orbit the Earth in a position they can be lit more or less 24/7. The moon's got a 14 day night so that's an awful lot of down time for your very very expensive electricity generating equipment.

The long night is not uniform. There are places on the moon near the poles that never see night (excluding lunar eclipses). We can do it either way though, but I suspect that we can fully automate the construction of solar farms, which would make it cheaper and easier just to build it all on the moon.
03-03-2010, 06:49 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessus

Oh. Well domes that big would be very impractical, though I admit I missed that bit of your post.

Sending people to live there at all is pretty damn impractical. Robots can do it better and cheaper. But if we're fantasizing about how good it all could have been, why bother accounting for practicality?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Being

Sure there is. The molecules are just very far apart from each other.
[/LIST]

By that argument the whole damn galaxy's got an atmosphere. :|
03-03-2010, 06:51 PM
Nessus

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

By that argument the whole damn galaxy's got an atmosphere. :|

Don't contradict your teacher.
03-03-2010, 06:54 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraith

The long night is not uniform. There are places on the moon near the poles that never see night (excluding lunar eclipses). We can do it either way though, but I suspect that we can fully automate the construction of solar farms, which would make it cheaper and easier just to build it all on the moon.

Those polar locations are too small to produce significant power I'd think, considering our needs. And if you're beaming from the moon, you have to have some kind of satellite relay network set up to get power where you want it. Might as well just build solar satellites if you're going to all that trouble. And you can still use the robots to build and sling them into Earth orbit when they're done. :)

I can't wait until we all have robots to see to all our needs.
03-03-2010, 06:55 PM
Nessus

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Those polar locations are too small to produce significant power I'd think, considering our needs. And if you're beaming from the moon, you have to have some kind of satellite relay network set up to get power where you want it. Might as well just build solar satellites if you're going to all that trouble. And you can still use the robots to build and sling them into Earth orbit when they're done. :)

I can't wait until we all have robots to see to all our needs.

Ask Heron how that's likely to work out
03-03-2010, 06:56 PM
Being

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Those polar locations are too small to produce significant power I'd think, considering our needs. And if you're beaming from the moon, you have to have some kind of satellite relay network set up to get power where you want it. Might as well just build solar satellites if you're going to all that trouble. And you can still use the robots to build and sling them into Earth orbit when they're done. :)

I can't wait until we all have robots to see to all our needs.

I want a Cherry 2000.
03-03-2010, 07:00 PM
Wraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

By "large enclosure" I mean a big dome or large underground chamber.

http://www.webscription.net/chapters...498747___2.htm
03-03-2010, 07:07 PM
Wraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Those polar locations are too small to produce significant power I'd think, considering our needs.

Solar power generation on the moon is going to be easier and more efficient than here on earth, but yeah, probably can't power the whole planet just from the peaks of eternal light. But there are plenty of options to get full coverage with two farms (again, exempting eclipses).

A sattellite relay network isn't strictly necessary - the same effect can be achieved with four ground recieving stations.

I'm not sure volatiles are in as great a supply and easily accessible on the moon, and I don't think a mass driver is going to be accurate enough to sling things into the right orbits on its own.

Let's solve the problem once we get there. First thing's first: permanent moonbase. Write your congressman.
03-03-2010, 07:47 PM
ar81

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

I know you're joking, but consider the novelty marketing potential.... Some day. Not in our life time, but some day. Maybe.

Perhaps they could open a convenience store with cheap products for alien spacecraft... :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Flying on the moon? Read about it somewhere in some Popular Mechanics style futurism bull shit article. If you consider you'll weight 1/6 there but have the same muscle power you earned down here, why would you not be able to flap a set of wings and take off? Its worth a try at least, no?

If you jump from a certain altitude, you may get killed. It has less gravity, but it does not mean you float away.
Certainly your jumps would get you higher, but still there will be limits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

By "large enclosure" I mean a big dome or large underground chamber.

It should be underground. Surface is exposed to meteors.
03-03-2010, 07:47 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessus

Ask Heron how that's likely to work out

Who and what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraith

Solar power generation on the moon is going to be easier and more efficient than here on earth, but yeah, probably can't power the whole planet just from the peaks of eternal light. But there are plenty of options to get full coverage with two farms (again, exempting eclipses).

A sattellite relay network isn't strictly necessary - the same effect can be achieved with four ground recieving stations.

I'm not sure volatiles are in as great a supply and easily accessible on the moon, and I don't think a mass driver is going to be accurate enough to sling things into the right orbits on its own.

Let's solve the problem once we get there. First thing's first: permanent moonbase. Write your congressman.

Volatiles? What do you think the water's for???
03-03-2010, 07:53 PM
Illusions

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

I can't wait until we all have robots to see to all our needs.

This could turn out pretty bad...
03-03-2010, 08:05 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illusions

This could turn out pretty bad...

We need to make them love us.
03-03-2010, 08:11 PM
Illusions

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

We need to make them love us.

Did you click the link?
03-03-2010, 08:11 PM
Wraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

We need to make them love us.

Like Valerie 23!
03-03-2010, 08:12 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illusions

Did you click the link?

Yes. Problem is those robots are too auto-piloted. We need to make them sentient. Make them love us, and care for us, and keep us.

EDIT: This has all happened before. And it will all happen again. We're fated, why even write the next chapter?
03-03-2010, 08:22 PM
ar81

Ah, do you mean a technocracy for the future of mankind?
03-03-2010, 08:27 PM
EyeKhan

A rat done bit my sister Nell.
(with Whitey on the moon)
Her face and arms began to swell.
(and Whitey's on the moon)
I can't pay no doctor bill.
(but Whitey's on the moon)
Ten years from now I'll be payin' still.
(while Whitey's on the moon)
03-03-2010, 08:28 PM
Illusions

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Yes. Problem is those robots are too auto-piloted. We need to make them sentient. Make them love us, and care for us, and keep us.

Making sentient tools is an even worse idea, especially emotional sentient tools.

Technician - "Hey can you hand me that cutter over there?"
Engineering Machine #547 - "*BEEP* Improper method of request. Please state again."
Technician - "Oh, umm, could you hand me the plasma torch?"
Engineering Machine #547 - "*BEEP* Improper method of request. Please state again."
Technician - "I would like the plasma torch, Object ID Number: Five Zero Zero Dash One Nine Zero Four, Brand: Myazaki."
Engineering Machine #547 - "*BEEP* Improper method of request. Please state again."
Technician - *Over intercom* "Engineering Machine Number Five Four Seven is malfunctioning, request assistance."
Automated Intercom Help Technician - "Interfacing remotely with Engineering Machine Five Four Seven, please standby...interface complete. Engineering Machine #547 is behaving passive aggressively due to emotional distress. Potential Solution: Reconciliation via heartfelt discussion. Topic of Consideration: Why you never called or instant messaged after leaving for duty on Mars Colony."
Technician - :sour: "Ffffffuuuuuuuu..."
03-03-2010, 08:46 PM
Wraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Yes. Problem is those robots are too auto-piloted. We need to make them sentient. Make them love us, and care for us, and keep us.

All humans placed into artificially induced comas for their own protection!
03-04-2010, 03:02 AM
Dreadnaught

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

The Dutch. We be good at colonising. Then you Brits can kick our ass of the moon. Then Americans can kick your ass of the moon nicking all the shit we (Dutch/Brits) built up there.

Then Holywood will make a movie how the Americans single-handedly colonised the moon.

:haha: That's an epic quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbuk2

Mineral rights addressed by an adjunct to the above Treaty:

Article 7 of the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty states that "Any activity relating to mineral resources, other than scientific research, shall be prohibited."
This provision contrasts with the rejected Convention on the Regulation of Antarctic Mineral Resource Activities, which would have allowed mining under the control and taxation of an international managing body similar to the International Seabed Authority.

Rather surprisingly.

~

Agreed, Dread. If valuable minerals are discovered on the moon, I'd expect that to be the driving force behind any colonisation efforts.

aka PROFITSSSS

Indeed. And I think it's fine to colonize the moon for minerals and water. But I get the strong feeling that fighting wars for things like water are probably less productive than the space race was.
03-04-2010, 12:46 PM
EyeKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illusions

Making sentient tools is an even worse idea, especially emotional sentient tools.

I know. I'm just being silly. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraith

All humans placed into artificially induced comas for their own protection!

Well, as a species, we'd be less idiotic that way.

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