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I did not deem it worthwhile to bring up. I did not bring it up. I did respond to a fallacious claim you made. Have you mistaken me for Lewk perhaps? He brought it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Even excluding the dormant nations (where the law could still be applied) I would still say 3 or 4 > "No western country". Wouldn't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Then I guess you'll be removing Canada from that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I listed Canada as a nation which currently criminalises blasphemy, not one where it was tested recently. Canada is thankfully in the process of repealing its blasphemy laws, but that hasn't gone through yet. The claim was that "No western country does this" in response to "Blasphemy is not illegal". Well blasphemy is still illegal in Canada so no I won't take it off the list until repeal is completed.
Then I expect you'll be adding the US or several states to the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Not the US - AFAIK thanks to the US's First Amendment its never been on the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
If several states are on the list then that just emphasises my point, it doesn't undermine it.
Lewk, based on the way you use the word "liberal", I think you're confused by the term *liberal democracy*. :donkey:
I bolded the portion that is relevant. Why is it always western standards were should compare ourselves to? There is a big world out there. I really don't get what y'all have against Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
The same Japan that jails 1/20 the portion of its population as the US? The Japan that executes 3 people per year? The Japan that emphasizes rehabilitation over punishment for juveniles?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
http://apjjf.org/2017/09/Ellis.html
So you really don't believe the US should hold itself to a higher standard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Because we are western nations and western standard are our standards. Though I would include a couple of Eastern nations in that (eg Australia and New Zealand are geographically East but culturally West). But fine compare yourselves to Japan, even then the claim still holds true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Please name a single democratic nation anywhere in the globe that you respect that you believe America is more liberal (by your definition) than.
EDIT: I could name one, but only one. Not sure if you could even do that.
The point you should be getting is that the idea the US has a "liberal" judicial system, measured against almost all other modern democratic "first-world" nations, is laughably inaccurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
You can accurately say it is "liberal" as measured against something else, like what you would like to be, or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia (as many have said here). But the US is not liberal among nations most of us think of as it's national peers.
That one flew over your head didn't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Depends on the standard of course. However if we are making a comparison of US system to other systems in the world it should be other systems in the world. We unfortunately have some severe disadvantages (bordering next to a near failed state where liberals *and some republicans* have allowed mass migration to occur) and a really toxic school system run by corrupt unions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
Though I would even challenge the basic premise of using outcomes to determine how 'liberal' a system is. If you have more crime you should have more people in prison. This isn't a difficult concept.
I'll give you Australia is culturally West but Japan? The reason for bringing up Japan is a slightly tongue in cheek argument against Loki about using the 'West' (Essentially America, Australia, Canada and Europe) as the only measuring stick because hey we're white!Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Are you going to return to the initial premise of your thread, which is that America has a liberal legal system because it's more liberal than Saudi Arabia?
And the Philippines, Afghanistan, Brazil, Iraq, Russia, China, North Korea. And that's just what comes to mind off the top of my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Congratulations, you're more liberal than war torn countries and those known for human rights abuse.
I said Australia and New Zealand are culturally West, not Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
I asked and you didn't respond in the other thread which democratic nations you respect that America is more liberal than. Now of these nations you've mentioned, which do you think are democratic nations you respect - and which do you think are evil/abusive/authoritarian hellholes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Do you want America to be comparable to North Korea?
Whoops - you are right you did say that.
You'll find there are few nations I 'respect'. In the end I view a ranking system based on all countries, period. There are almost 200 countries in the world - do you place the American justice system in the top half or the bottom half?
2/3 of the countries in the world are in the Third World. Is that your base of comparison?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
The only nations you should compare to are those you respect. If you don't respect them, then don't aspire to be like them. If you do respect them then fair enough compare to them.
If half the nations in the world are impoverished hellholes should America aspire to be an impoverished hellhole?
Precisely why I asked if he doesn't think America should be held to a higher standard.
Land of the Free indeed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/w...on-houthi.html
Lewk, remind me why you oppose Shari'a law?
If he actually did the crime - justice was served. Simply because a horrible legal system occasionally gets it right (akin to a broken clock telling the right time twice a day) doesn't mean I support all parts of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Somehow I doubt you disagree with most of their punishments for crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski