Papers, please

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Um - what? Two miles from the border you pull over a van with 20 people and most don't speak English and don't have any documentation. You want ICE to let them go because on an individual level they haven't been proven to not be a citizen? /boggle

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Yes. There is no obligation on free men to carry documentation.

What law has been broken? Since when has carrying documentation been required?

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Drivers are required to show a valid DL when they're pulled over, but not proof of citizenship. An important distinction with an often-used loophole:
Cops can run any "suspicious" vehicle's plates thru their computer data base before stopping the driver, but will sometimes look for any minor infraction (like not using a turn signal) in order to pull over "suspicious-looking" black or brown drivers/occupants.

Either "Lewk the Libertarian" has never been a passenger in an extended-capacity van, or he's just admitted he's fine with racial profiling. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Yes. There is no obligation on free men to carry documentation.

What law has been broken? Since when has carrying documentation been required?

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How exactly would you get illegal immigrants out of the country when you have no way of proving their identity because they have no ID on them? Walk me through the process on how law enforcement should get illegals out of the country. What actions do they take? What tactics?

If your goal is to remove people living in the US illegally...why not start with the millions who overstay their Visas? (Round up those Canadians and Europeans!) Then move onto the Employers who hire people with fake documents but look the other way (because US citizens tend to know their rights about Labor Laws, and wouldn't work in a slaughter house or picking field for less than $7.25/hr).

If you want to prevent illegal immigration, don't ignore or defund Diplomatic efforts in suffering countries. And hey, if you want to stop the drug cartels or sex traffickers, at least acknowledge that WE supply the demand. :bored:

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Originally Posted by GGT

If your goal is to remove people living in the US illegally...why not start with the millions who overstay their Visas? (Round up those Canadians and Europeans!) Then move onto the Employers who hire people with fake documents but look the other way (because US citizens tend to know their rights about Labor Laws, and wouldn't work in a slaughter house or picking field for less than $7.25/hr).

If you want to prevent illegal immigration, don't ignore or defund Diplomatic efforts in suffering countries. And hey, if you want to stop the drug cartels or sex traffickers, at least acknowledge that WE supply the demand. :bored:

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Just to be clear I very much think the BEST way to get rid of illegal immigration is going after employers who hire them. That doesn't solve all immigration but it would have the biggest impact.

Secondly we are supplying the demand which is why I'm in favor of legalizing drugs, lets grow it right here in the good ole US of A!

EDIT: That actually isn't why I'm in favor of legalizing drugs but it would be an awesome secondary benefit.

I still remember when conservatives were outraged at the very idea of a national ID. But that was when they thought it would inconvenience them rather than their non-white neighbors.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

How exactly would you get illegal immigrants out of the country when you have no way of proving their identity because they have no ID on them? Walk me through the process on how law enforcement should get illegals out of the country.

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This exact logic is how those "administrative inquiries" done by colleges into rape allegations function. So thank you, Lewk, for once again proving that you think someone crossing the border is more important and deserving of swift justice than raping and violating a person.

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What actions do they take? What tactics?

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The difference between the academic "courts" and ICE is that the schools don't detain you for months or years without trial.

LOL are you seriously considering college campus kangaroo courts to be the equivalent to the American criminal justice system?

But I'll pose the same question to you Fuzzy - how should the government go about ensuring illegal immigrants are captured and deported?

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Originally Posted by Loki

I still remember when conservatives were outraged at the very idea of a national ID. But that was when they thought it would inconvenience them rather than their non-white neighbors.

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You mean Republicans who claimed to be conservatives, in order to get elected? ;)

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

LOL are you seriously considering college campus kangaroo courts to be the equivalent to the American criminal justice system?

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They shouldn't be, no. But you apparently want them to be, just so long as the law-enforcement official uses an "immigration" badge

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But I'll pose the same question to you Fuzzy - how should the government go about ensuring illegal immigrants are captured and deported?

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I don't much care about capturing and ejecting illegals in the first place. I'm sure as hell not going to go along with police trampling over MY civil liberties so you can get that little emotional kick you crave from some "bad guy getting it." If the government can't do it without arresting me without probable cause for not carrying papers I'm under no obligation to carry then the government doesn't get to do it, full stop.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

How exactly would you get illegal immigrants out of the country when you have no way of proving their identity because they have no ID on them? Walk me through the process on how law enforcement should get illegals out of the country. What actions do they take? What tactics?

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First identify beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is illegal, then detain them, then prove it, then deport them.

You don't detain someone prior to identifying that they are illegal and not carrying ID is insufficient since there is no legal requirement to carry ID.

Best place to start would be background checks on people in custody for having broken a law, not simply sweeping up law abiding citizens and then doing the checks.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Just to be clear I very much think the BEST way to get rid of illegal immigration is going after employers who hire them. That doesn't solve all immigration but it would have the biggest impact.

Secondly we are supplying the demand which is why I'm in favor of legalizing drugs, lets grow it right here in the good ole US of A!

EDIT: That actually isn't why I'm in favor of legalizing drugs but it would be an awesome secondary benefit.

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It has been illegal for about 15 years for any employer in this country to hire anyone without proof of right to work in the UK. Hiring an illegal immigrant could see me go to prison.

Switzerland goes further, they do that plus they give an amnesty and a path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant who reports their employer for having hired them.