I'm not much concerned about the EU's designation of terrorist groups. They also don't include Abu Sayyaf, Jemaah Islamiah, etc. I don't deny that the Saudis and Gulf States are also criminals; that doesn't stop Iran from being in the same boat. So far, the Gulf States and Saudi have not pushed their terrorist groups to carry out attacks to further their national goals (mostly it's a religious thing), and they aren't flouting international sanctions and building nuclear weapons. If they were, I'd be all in favor of a strike on their nuclear facilities as well. Pakistan is a good example here - they are a huge issue as a putative 'ally' given their complete lack of control in the AfPak border region, their open support for terrorism in India and Afghanistan, and their general instability (not to mention collusion in hiding OBL and other AQ leaders). This is a big issue, but we can't do much about it since they have a significant arsenal of nuclear weapons. We didn't do anything about Pakistan's nukes because of historic reasons, but I don't want to make the same mistake with Iran. Pakistan has been a huge proliferation headache (though thankfully not to terrorist groups that I know of) and an extremely bad actor. I think Iran would be worse given their ideological stance. Similarly, while NK doesn't do the global terrorism bit, they are also very bad actors wrt proliferation and it would have been preferable if we could have stopped their program before it started (unfortunately, in the case of NK a strike on their nuke facilities would likely have resulted in an all-out war killing hundreds of thousands of SK civilians).
I think you underestimate the aggressiveness of Iranian actions and overestimate those done by China et al. Turkey and Russia are belligerent to their immediate neighbors, no question (Turkey on Greece and Kurdistan, Russia on Chechnya, Georgia, et al), though not in the 'we'll wipe you off the map' existential kind of belligerence. China makes noise about the S. China Sea and brutally puts down internal dissent, but it not even remotely interested in a shooting war. Iran, on the other hand, is actively engaged in a worldwide effort to attack Westerners and Western power, and is fueled by extremist religious ideology. I have serious doubts about their ability to restrain the nuts in the regime, and treating them like any other country with a few diplomatic disputes is ridiculous.
I agree completely that Iran is a minor threat to the US. They don't have ICBM capability and have little to no chance of developing it in the near future. So what? They're a threat to their region, and are clearly working on developing becoming a much larger and more existential threat. I think that the US should only act because of its role as the only country that can effectively intervene, or in conjunction with its allies in the region who are facing existential threats from Iran... NOT because the US is threatened. But even so, we're not talking about a US strike, we're talking about an Israeli one, and I think it's legally and morally justified. Whether or not it's a good idea is another issue entirely.
As for the narrow question of legality, I don't know what IS legal right now, but I do know what SHOULD be legal. That's what we're debating, right? As I said:
I still think the above is true, and I think Iran fits the criteria I've set up. They're a rogue regime that pose a very serious threat to proliferation of WMDs and their potential use against ideological adversaries. IMO attacking their nuclear program should be legal as a last resort. I think that even is your international jurists may disagree with me in theory, I don't think that there's any real body of int'l law (written or case law) that has really stood the test of time on this issue. Preemption and prevention are used, and have been for decades in precisely this sort of intervention. I think international law is only relevant in that it is respected and followed, and AFAIK this isn't really the case here. If it is indeed illegal, they should change the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by me
