It just took you several posts to admit that refrigeration is not a component of bottled water, and yet you call me smallminded :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
yeah we're done here.
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It just took you several posts to admit that refrigeration is not a component of bottled water, and yet you call me smallminded :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
yeah we're done here.
I still don't see what you were driving at OG, supermarkets also sell soda at room temp.
The ease of access angle. Bottled water is nothing more than water + container. Not exactly a barrier to consumers creating their own product. Soda requires the carbonation. Not something consumers are capable of doing (yet) in an affordable or worthwhile manner.
It doesn't make sense to be against banning the most wasteful use of a product because other uses are similar but not as wasteful. With that type of logic you can always find a reason to never fix anything.
I don't view it as a major problem that ranks high on the list to tackle (below the soda-induced obesity epidemic on the list of our problems).Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
However: Encourage mains water usage, encourage recycling, tax any remaining uncovered externalities (doubt there is any).
Serving chilled is a part of bottled products even if supermarkets choose to sell packs of them warm for you to chill later. Coke even have it written on their bottle. Point is there's more uses than your smallmindedness can see to it - being chilled is one. I've never seen individual 500ml bottles sold not chilled just packs of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
You fail to wrap your head around the notion that the container (plus what can be done with it) itself may be considered useful to anyone and not just the fluid inside the container. What is the healthiest bottled drink? Which is healthier: bottled water or bottled Coke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Just a few.small things:
- at my work we have a cooler thingy that cools tap water, aside from being (a lot!) cheaper than bottles, it's also a lot smaller and has less waste.
- aside from being chilled, the bottle simply is a convenient size to carry around (and by that i don't mean from the store to home), and also about the right size of the amount of water I want, while on a train or something
- the chilled bottles/cans that are sold at supermarkets are generally higher priced than non-chilled (hence they also have slightly different packaging). And individual bottles are very available here, but this reminds me of how I was only able to buy 4packs of cider in a UK supermarket - do you guys have something against individual bottles or something?
- some mineral waters do have distinct flavours
- will someone who just wants a bottle of something to drink now.buy a soda instead of water? That's not something you want!
Some colliding principles here: water, plastics, recycling....and general public safety.
Some plastic bottles have been shown to leech chemicals into the beverage itself, posing a danger to the 'drinker'. Think infants or children sucking down chemicals with their hydration/nutrition bottles.
Other plastic derivatives are sent to landfills but leech toxins into the soil (and eventually aquifers and ground water wells), or to incinerators that spew toxins into the air, posing a danger to 'everyone'. Think styrofoam or PVCs.
I think the overriding public need is clean/safe drinking water itself....but take a look around. It's pretty hard to find public drinking water fountains these days. Almost as hard as finding a public phone. :eek:
Oh yeah, another thing: the.negative effects are not in the taxation, waste disposal comes from local authorities, I think. Over here at least.
How much is the marginal cost of waste disposal caused solely by water bottles (not soda etc bottles)? Especially considering they're recyclable so don't need to go to landfill.
How much tax is generated on their sales?
Why is this a unique problem to the healthiest bottle of drink on the market?
"Over here" we have rural folks dumping their waste on city municipalities that accept all sorts of "garbage', including toilets, mattresses, refrigerators. We pay for our waste disposal, and septic sewerage, in local taxes. Rural residents don't -- they either use septic tanks to hold their toilet refuse, and pay a private company to pump/remove their refuse -- or they don't bother with any municipal mandate, and put their waste directly into the ground. Like 18th century outhouse stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
:sour:
We have other means to solve this problem.
- Water is only sold in PET. I haven't seen any other material used to sell water for at least a decade.
- Everyone who sells drinks in PET bottles must take back empty PET bottles.
- Waste disposal is paid either per liter or per kg, not through general taxes.
The last one has lead to one of the highest recycling rates in the world, and works IMO better than the refund that they have for example in Germany.
If I go to the city and I get thirsty I want to buy some water, how would I do that if this is banned, I can't get taped water everywhere (train).
Didn't you get the memo? OG reckons its healthier to carry a soda with you onto the train than water. Only in America - they're not fat just big boned. :rolleyes:
This is how Publix does it. This is a front to back isle, in the dead center of the store, of nothing but water. None of it refrigerated. All the soda is an isle over with the beer, and the juice is at the end of the store with the cookies. Seeing stuff like this on a regular basis, I don't blame this town at all for banning this rather specific combination of product size and delivery method. Schools figured out how to avoid the problem this causes more than a decade ago, but leave it to the free market to need a kick in the pants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
I see what looks like plenty of sodas there which can and will be the replacement bottle of choice for many.
Of the many, many varieties of beverage no doubt sold there please name which bottled beverages are healthier than bottled water.
I am also still awaiting (no doubt forever) the temperature probe of mains water.
My counter-proposal: tax products containing high fructose corn syrup to such an extent that sales of sodas drop, addressing the problems of both garbage and of poor health. Next, tax the purveyors of the worst sorts of water bottles, but give them credits for recycling bottles in good ways.
I'm still of the position that the law needs to be universal and not biased towards water. If the argument is that water is so well delivered by other means. If this was true, that such water is equal in all ways, then people wouldn't by the small bottle of water, but they do. If you're banning it, ban them all.
Or maybe you could stop playing big brother and mind your own damned business. Your the type of person a hundred years ago would be all in favor of laws against drinking because its a social ill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
My proposal: tax landfill then mind your own.
Oh wait, we already do that. At least the first part.
As I said in my post, taxing is not the right fing for garbage, you need to pay per item (volume or weight), the same way as if you buy it. Garbage flat rates are the worst thing you can have.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Garbage is my business just as it is yours you shortsighted tit :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
nope. no soda. but if its the colored bottles that are confusing you, you've already linked to them once.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I am just wondering that you drink Perrier and San Pelegrino in the US, don't you have your own water?
we do, in fact I believe the bottles in the 2nd picture are bottled somewhere in my state.Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
yipee for massive amounts of marketing and advertising. Sometimes with a helping of bullshit
Swiss and Swedes just don't get it, having ready and free access to the world's most delicious and cold tap-water.Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
I think I never saw water in any store here from overseas, of course I can't be sure because I don't know the origin of each and every brand. To transport water so far is probably the much bigger problem than some small bottles to recycle.
Two points.
First of all, Poland Spring's ridiculous cap gimmick (tiny cap "to save the planet") is impossible for me to open.
Second of all, neither morality not culture is possible to legislate. All they are doing is being asses.
If someone is going to be throwing bottled water randomly on the ground, they are going to do it regardless if hell freezes over. Same thing goes for if someone is going to throw bottled water into the trash when there's a recycle bin 2 feet away.
------
I remember those at school. Nasty, unmaintained, and unsanitary imo. The faucet is/was too close to the basin to be able to drink without touching either, and no doubt that button is very dirty as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
I disagree. Seatbelts, just for one example.Quote:
Originally Posted by agamemnus
They can't throw bottled water randomly onto the ground if there is no bottled water. Kinda the point of the ban.Quote:
If someone is going to be throwing bottled water randomly on the ground, they are going to do it regardless if hell freezes over. Same thing goes for if someone is going to throw bottled water into the trash when there's a recycle bin 2 feet away.
Seat belts are safety not morality/culture.
They can throw bottled sodas away.
As an example of changing the culture of not wearing seatbelts, as was the culture pre-1980s, through legislation.
Though that could be down to the semantics of the word culture. It can mean more than one thing.
As a better example, when the British government outlawed capital punishment in the late 1960s, the populace as a majority was in favour of capital punishment. In the decades since, the majority moved to being against. Arguments as to whether the morality of the population changed as a result of the change to the law are open.
Again, perhaps there are better examples.
~
Soda is not available in forms other than in manageable cartons; water is, both refrigerated and tepid.
There's a small faction on this forum that believes that requiring people to wear seatbelts and punishing them for not doing so is immoral.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
But for those who want a bottle the choice is water or soda; the choice is not merely tap or bottled.
Quite, but I think that small faction was down to the singular member from Hicksville, Wyoming. Christ, I've entirely forgotten her name. :sour:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Edit: Munchkin!
I thought it was every single libertarian and quasi-libertarian on this forumQuote:
Originally Posted by Timbuk2
I'm a libertarian but I see a libertarian reason for those laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Munch stands out as being quite vehement, I recall, in railing against being told what to do vis a vis seatbelts by teh gummint.
I can't recall anyone else taking the same line, but my memory ain't what it use ta be. :old:
Munch also thought she could drink drive and getting arrested for doing so was Police harassment.
Lewk IIRC is anti-seatbelts.
Aye she was a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
It'd be fun to see you, Lewk, Veldan and Enoch duke it out :downcast:Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I don't see any trampling of rights with seatbelt laws.
Public road, the public can make the rules to use the road.
If I want to yippie ki yea my self without a seatbelt on my private property...I can.
No conflict here.
100% agreed it is exactly my opinion too.
I'm generally of the mind that the law shouldn't be used to enforce seat belt use, but that if you decided you didn't want to wear seat belts your insurance premiums should be adjusted accordingly. If, because of your failure to wear a seat belt, it can be proven you injured or killed someone else, you can and should be held liable for their death/injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minx;
