British Press; EU will die in its own dirt tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by wiggin

Flixy:
Agreed. Just getting an 'efficient' label isn't enough, I think that estimated cost considerations (rather than kWh numbers that people don't understand) help to handle this. Knowing that your SUV will cost the average driver an extra $1000 a year in fuel costs will get far more attention than MPG numbers. Ditto for appliances (BTW, I do want to emphasize that at least the DOE's 'Energy Star' labels take a lot of time understanding actual use scenarios rather than just a headline number like wattage. My friend spends most of the time running appliances in a variety of use conditions and designing models to compare real efficiencies across devices and brands.)

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I don't doubt the testing is done rigorously, but at some point it has to be translated to a simple label. BTW, am I correct when I think that the energy star is just a stamp of approval, and doesn't classify any further (the European labels go G-A (sometimes up to A+++)? From a quick google I just see the picture I used to see when starting up old computers.

Energy Star is just the stickers, essentially saying that the appliance beats the federally mandated limit by a determined percentage for each class of devices. It's been expanded from just computers et al to pretty much everything. In addition, most appliances come with an EnergyGuide sticker that includes expected power consumption, comparisons insides its class, and expected cost to operate annually.

There are flaws to both systems, and there's always difficult choices to make when determining something as vague as 'efficiency' or 'typical usage', but I think the general approach is sound. Coupled with appropriate campaigns and incentives to save energy, I think it could be quite effective - without resorting to heavy-handed tactics like outlawing certain devices on the basis of a single spec.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

Works on carpets as well.

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No, it works on shitty, shallow-pile carpets. Carpets that might as well be wood floors anyway.

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Originally Posted by wiggin

Energy Star is just the stickers, essentially saying that the appliance beats the federally mandated limit by a determined percentage for each class of devices. It's been expanded from just computers et al to pretty much everything. In addition, most appliances come with an EnergyGuide sticker that includes expected power consumption, comparisons insides its class, and expected cost to operate annually.

There are flaws to both systems, and there's always difficult choices to make when determining something as vague as 'efficiency' or 'typical usage', but I think the general approach is sound. Coupled with appropriate campaigns and incentives to save energy, I think it could be quite effective - without resorting to heavy-handed tactics like outlawing certain devices on the basis of a single spec.

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Speaking as an average consumer I'd say that the annoying thing about most labels is that they soon become another way for producers to fool people into believing their product is better than the product of the competition, where the truth of the matter is that they were merely smarter at playing the system. Seriously, I was buying into the more powerful = better myth for a long time, and producers were only too happy to make 'us' believe that that was exactly the case. Only when I needed to buy a vacuum in Turkey I started to realise that my metric was entirely irrelevant and in the end I found out that a relatively cheap low powered machine I could buy was significantly better at doing the job than machines having up to 1000W more powerful engines, accidentally also costing a lot more.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Since your fictionalising quotes attributed to me, please quote the post where I said - as you put in quotation marks - "This won't ever work!"

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I said that this is a summary of your attitude, Rand. Learn to read.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

No, it works on shitty, shallow-pile carpets. Carpets that might as well be wood floors anyway.

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Strange, I must've imagined the steep price tag for my carpet then.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

I said that this is a summary of your attitude, Rand. Learn to read.

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Learn to read this: I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT!!

Quit making up bullshit and deal with the real world, if you can find a way to pull your head out of your arse long enough to locate the real world.

"summary of your attitude", Rand.