Yes aimless
https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/
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Fuck you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
True independence is also important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
And this coming from the guy who tries to tell us again and again that expert projections concerning the results of the Brexit are not applicable. And then he presents us with pie-in-the-sky numbers from experts which predict the rise of the UK...Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
... that does not work, Rand.
Many many experts backed Brexit. Many did not. Those that did not made assumptions based on the UK both losing access to the Single Market and the UK signing no new trade agreements. I view those assumptions as both fundamentally unsound.
Despite what they were saying during the campaign (eg Obama's "back of the queue" remarks) since the vote came in we have already had many nations now say signing a trade deal with us will be a priority. For every one that does that is another blow against the faulty assumptions that undermined the case for Brexit. Had Obama told the truth and the experts factored the truth in then they would have produced different numbers.
Projections for the UK overtaking Germany being a matter of when not if are unanimous. While Brexit debate had expert opinion split there is no such split on the demographics that make this inevitable.
This referendum really made you up your dishonesty game. No, there weren't many many experts backing Brexit. This is like saying that there are many many experts saying climate change isn't happening because there are 20 people saying that while there are a thousand saying the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
you brexit, you pays for it
I absolutely love how you like to count "one, two, many" when the real numbers aren't really in your favour.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
The financial institutions that are linked to the government backed the status quo that the government backed. But it's noticeable that the former directors of many of these organisations who can speak independently backed change. Mervyn King long term Governor of the Bank of England, Digby Jones long term director of the CBI. These are not crackpots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Same with our allies. Allied states backed the government's line. Many former heads of those states backed change.
It is not a cynical conspiracy theory to suggest the government was putting pressure out there to back Remain. Far from it, it was official policy.
Typing on a phone. There was no intention of doing that. Absolutely more were on the other side never denied that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
Bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I bet he's going to tell us now that Obama said the 'special relationship' stays strong and important or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Very strong indeed: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ.../06/back-queue (another useless expert).
Oh, but he'll be gone in a couple of months, and his father is like Kenyan so what you expect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
And we all know that the US is a real easy country to make an agreement with. Their senate has never stopped anything ever.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-9224781.html
Looks like Farage is a Putin-worshiping asshole, like the rest of his far-right ilk in Europe (and yes, the article is a bit dated).
Corbyn office 'sabotaged' EU Remain campaign - sources
someone explain uk politics to me
Commies like Corbyn don't think the EU is commie enough and believe the only path to communism is through national elections (i.e. they haven't read Marx in a while).
Maybe it's got to do that the system on the one hand is geared towards independent mp s yet works with parties to allocate high offices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Good job Farage is a meaningless nobody who has been made redundant by Thursday's vote then isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Your level of delusion on this topic is utterly breathtaking. Carry on.
You're the delusional one if you think someone ten times rejected by the public to become even a lowly MP is someone worthy of the time of day. Farage isn't an MP today, he won't be an MP tomorrow and some point probably in 2019 he won't be an MEP. Good riddance.
He is about as relevant to us now as Ross Perot.
He'd be as relevant as Ross Perot if Perot succeeded in scuttling NAFTA.
Except he didn't Tories did. Furthermore that's history now I'm talking about the future.
And the basis for your sunny optimistic is what?
Learning from history. Farage has failed 100% of the time to win a seat in Parliament. UKIP has failed 100% of the time to win a seat in Parliament that wasn't already held by a defector with an established personal vote. They have also lost their USP so should be less popular now not more so how are they suddenly going to achieve a breakthrough in Parliament that has escaped them permanently in the past?
I think you're being a little pessimistic there, RB
Pessimistic?
Just like the Labour Party never broke the Liberal/Tory duopoly. And just like the Labour Party disappeared after the creation of the welfare state.
Well yeah. I mean, you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I mean, isn't that a bit pessimistic? I mean, sure, you might be right, but there's certainly a possibility that the UKIP will do better. An optimist would be more optimistic about their chances is all I'm saying.Quote:
They have also lost their USP so should be less popular now not more so how are they suddenly going to achieve a breakthrough in Parliament that has escaped them permanently in the past?
Hang on. Even if you can't make up your mind which "expert predictions" to like....you're assuming the UK will remain the same, when there's a good chance that it won't. Scotland and Northern Ireland might vote to leave the UK, in hopes of remaining in the EU. (There could even be a "United Ireland" in the next decade, who knows.) Then you'd no longer be the 5th largest economy in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
And you'd support their moves toward independence -- for the same reasons you've given for Brexit -- even though it would mean breaking up the UK into smaller pieces, right? :noob:
Also, al lot of immigrants aren't so happy with the overt racism of their English neighbours. So population growth could go in full reverse.
I wondered if/how the immigrant part of Brexit led some votes, to their own detriment? I mean, the UK is like 85% white.....so it's pretty hard to distinguish nationalism from racism. :noob:
It's not so clear cut. For some it's racism, for some xenophobia, for some a mix of the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
You're right...it's not so clear cut. For example, did the US political class only care about the vanishing middle class, because the middle class was predominantly white?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
And can a guy like Trump become "popular" if people are SO fed up with the political 'establishment' that they'd vote for him? Is our process management that bad? :(
The Labour Party had come to be a party of government before the welfare state was created. If UKIP were in office today (instead of having just one glorified independent) then we'd be in a whole different ballpark ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Since I view UKIP as a pretty nasty party optimistic for me is UKIP to do badly, pessimistic is it does well. There is a slim (very slim) possibility that UKIP will do better, that will not be a good thing if they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Wouldn't this result, which is what they have been campaigning for for years, be claimed as a win by them, and get them (at least a short term, but presumably elections will be soon since you're down a PM) boost? At least, I don't see that as more unlikely than them losign votes now that they've accomplished this.
Well, if the outcome of this whole shitstorm is that they are Norway 2.0 then I could very well imagine that people may forgive Nigel & cie the backing away from their non-promises. Otherwise I really don't know any longer. That country is messed up beyond recognition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
It's also funny though because I have been trying to get into Rand's head forever that getting out only would mean they losoe influence and get no sovereignty back for it.
Scotland and Northern Ireland represent less than 10% of the UK's GDP. One good year's English economic growth is worth more than all of NI put together.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Besides, I'd support their moves to indepdnence because they're not happy with the status quo. If they were I'd want them to stay. I've always felt that keeping people hostage is a terrible idea.
Who's been keeping people hostage? I know who's been blackmaling an entire continent, but keeping hostage?