Trump is the only one who can save us. If you don't vote Trump, you are voting for hell on Earth.
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Trump is the only one who can save us. If you don't vote Trump, you are voting for hell on Earth.
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Whoops...He left out Israelis for Trump
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/coalitions
Ugh. This is scary shit.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...wrence-douglas
Trump's been openly saying that since October 2016.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
It's a bit needlessly pessimistic. There actually is a mechanism for resolving that situation. It just won't resolve it in a way we like. It gets thrown to the House, but in a sui generis situation where this is one vote by each state delegation. And a majority of the states are dominated by Republican legislators. If they're willing to create a situation where they dispute enough electoral votes to make the election unresolved, they can just put Trump back in the WH for four more years. Interestingly, they could also choose to put Pence in, instead.
I'm more concerned with GOP governors in battleground states refusing to certify a Biden victory in their state.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
Or Trump blaming fraud, having that go to SCOTUS, and SCOTUS doing a repeat of Bush v. Gore.
Ahem...posted in this thread 4/29/2020,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Presidents don't step down if they lose the election anyway.
90% of your analyses are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I hope Trump doesn’t just get thrown out of the white house but also thrown into prison.
One step at a time. We must first take away his universal immunity, namely the senate, then justice can prevail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
I wouldn't be surprised if New York prosecutes him for various financial crimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
I'm right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
In the UK if a PM loses the election they're gone, typically within hours of the counting.
In the USA a President who loses the election remains in office for a couple of months until inauguration day for the next President. Trump won't just "step down" in November if he loses, but nor would any other President.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52923022Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Aaand he can't even respond to that in any manner even remotely dignified or mature.
This is a good illustration of why 90% of you analyses are wrong. You think you know what people are saying while plugging your ears chanting "nah nah nah nah nah".Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
To go against what I've been saying for a while, that Trump won't go peacefully, I could totally see him stepping down as a last resort so Pence can pardon him and the entire shit show he brought into office.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
It's quite possible he could pardon himself. But only for federal crimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
He can't pardon himself for any crimes he hasn't been charged with*. Just sit on the charges until Jan 21.
*Well, technically he can still give himself the pardon, but it wouldn't help him any.
Yes he can. Well, he can pardon other people for crimes they haven't yet been charged with (see Nixon's pardon). It's less clear whether he can pardon himself. But if he can, it can be for crimes he wasn't charged with yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
"It would be highly unusual, but there have been a few cases where people who had not been charged with a crime were pardoned, including President Gerald Ford's pardon of President Richard Nixon after Watergate, President Jimmy Carter's pardon of Vietnam draft dodgers and President George H.W. Bush's pardon of Caspar Weinberger. President Donald J. Trump pardoned Joseph Arpaio after he was charged and convicted, but prior to sentencing. "
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequ...ed-questions#1
At some point during this presidency I went digging into it, and the legal experts I had found were saying that even though the pardon can be issued, if the person hasn't been charged then there are no double-jeopardy protections in place. Further, there was a supreme court case that stated that acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt, and suggestions that it could be used as evidence in a hypothetical trial. The conclusion was that even though crimes without charges have been pardoned before, that only works if prosecutors let it, not because it necessarily has to.
I'm not a legal expert though, and I don't know if that's the standard opinion, so I could be off.
Not sure about that argument, but the fact remains these pardons have been issued in the past and none of the pardoned people have ever been charged. I'd take DOJ guidance on this subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
From what I remember, the basis for the argument came from the Nixon pardon, and the Carter administration getting pressure to take Nixon to court because the pardon didn't carry any force. Pardons without charges are very rare, and I had understood that's because nobody wants to deal with exactly this - that the pardon would carry all the legal force of a polite request, so it relies on continued DoJ cooperation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
I'm also vaguely remembering something about a supreme court case that said overly-broad pardons are invalid, but that may have been in regards to pardoning future crimes.
Anyways, I'm out of my wheelhouse, and this isn't really important anyways. Can we just call this an open question?
Why get so bent with semantics? You know what is meant by 'step down.' Leave office. Acknowledge defeat. Whatever. Don't you feel a waste of energy to argue things like this? It's like policing spelling in texts or IM. What's the point? Sometimes I find you very reasonable. Other times, you seem so loony.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
As someone that swims in the IT world...I prefer some accuracy in conversation. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
How am I wrong? And I know what you said, even if you meant something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
The POTUS doesn't "step down" if they lose the election, they stay in place until inauguration day. If there were to be SCOTUS cases related to the election (like in Bush v Gore) they would all be resolved before inauguration day and wouldn't postpone inauguration day.
Because the semantics matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
If Trump loses then a new President will be inaugurated come inauguration day, to suggest that Trump can say otherwise is absurd.
It was clear from context that Being was expressing concern that Trump wouldn't concede defeat and agree to leave office if the vote were to go against him. He's also trivially right; he didn't specify November—or any specific date—and Inauguration Day is after the election.
Do you even understand that 'analyses' is plural for 'analysis'? Do you really want me to go over every analysis you have ever made and explain to you the wrongness of 90% of them? You can just bugger right off you can. I will tell something they all have in common, you think you know what they said.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Indeed and that was my point in reply. Trump doesn't need to concede defeat. The Constitution is pretty clear and Trump will remain in office until inauguration day when his term expires. Then the newly elected President will take office. Whatever Trump thinks about it, whether he concedes or not is moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
What garbage he gets up to as a lame duck is probably a more legitimate concern.
Did you forget 2000 elections? Do you have full trust in the self cleansing qualities of the US political system after 20 more years of toxic and divisive political life?
He's no longer president if the Electoral College and Supreme Court say so. That's not a foregone conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Mr. Mushroom Cloud endorses a Democrat for prez...
Colin Powell for Biden
I wonder if Miss Mushroom Cloud will join his bandwagon this time?
Think Maduro...Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
(some already consider the US to be a Banana Republic)
Indeed, Trump as POTUS has no role to play in the Electoral College.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Hazir, the election results showed Bush won in 2000, even if others didn't like that or agree due to the hanging chads. That's not the same as suggesting that a losing candidate can just stay in office.
IIRC the actual results showed Bush lost, but they paused the recount to wait for the court's decision, and then decided not to recount because there wasn't enough time because they paused the counting in the first place, so it was a bit more complex.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
And Trump can put pressure on the electoral college and appoints the supreme court. I'm not sure i trust the right outcome from there if he'd refuse to accept the results. Let's hope it won't come to that though (and let's hope he actually loses, because if he wins the entire discussion is moot anyway).
He can also persuade GOP governors to refuse to certify pro-Biden results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
Or make it disproportionately hard for Democrats to vote. Of course that one is purely hypothetical.. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Voting is handled by the states. He'd have to convince GOP governors to do that for him. And possibly get the Supreme Court to sign off on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
Whether Bush won or not is not what I want to debate. I was pointing out that to inaugurate Biden he needs to be declared the winner. Lacking all reason Trump can frustrate that declaration to the point that it does not come about.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade