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Well, unlike the two contributions after you, you were of the opinion that extra training would be the way to go about the problem of thuggery in blue. I was wondering why 'training' would be a better solution than a real chance to doing prison as a deterrant. If we expect it to work for civil criminals, we should expect it to work for criminals in blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
Policing during the lock down doesn't exactly make it look like your police officers get trained to use common sense executing their powers.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
No system is perfect but not getting routine reports extrajudicial murder by officers of the state should be progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
I will grant you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
It might—might!—discourage many people who are poorly suited to the roles police would ideally play in a functioning and decent society.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
He's saying if cops knew they risk going to prison for their thuggery, they might behave better without requiring extensive training. Ofc Lewk's plan to teach all cops aikido is going to req. much more time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
EDIT: scooped... even "thuggery", it's uncanny and disturbing.
Bingo! Our police depts. have more training in using their weapons (and they have a shit ton of weaponry) than de-escalation tactics. They also have authority without accountability because of "conditional immunity" set into law. Not to mention that we have 18,000 law enforcement agencies, with ~ 1 million police officers, across 50 states....with no continuity for standard practices. Requiring body-cams and banning choke holds only happens at the local level, apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
There's no reason armed police should be giving traffic tickets, or responding to noise complaints, but they bump up their funding with fines and late-fee penalties that way (see Ferguson, MO). Tax dollars would be better spent on public Education, Healthcare, housing, infrastructure, or social programs aimed at eliminating poverty....but that's considered "welfare", or SSSocialism, or something. Yee Haw!
It might help if you first knew my position - which is that I don’t have problems with police officers receiving prison time for committing crimes. I also don’t have a problem with changing the rules so police officers can be fired more easily. That doesn’t negate the fact that additional training, or different training, might also make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Training people properly for the job they are supposed to do of course makes sense. But I have to presume that once a person is a police officer, that person is already trained. At which point I think that if that person violates the law, he/she should not be sent to a sensitivity training, but wind up in court and/or prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
This is why your call for extra training confuses me.
The idea of extra training is to prevent the law being broken in the first place, not to deal with it afterwards. Prevention is better than cure.
If officers spend more time working on marksmanship than they do de-escalation is it any wonder they resort to firearms?
I don't really believe you think that, any more than you would think once a person has graduated from medical school and can practice medicine that they have received all the training and experience they will ever need. It's why police officers go through an additional probationary period with their FTO, and many are required to have continuing training and education every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
You may believe that, but medical doctors get accused of malpractice and the typical punishment again is not to send them on a training. So while I am not against keeping police training up to date, I reject training as an alternative to disciplinary action, up to and including criminal charges.
Someone who has graduated medical school should be expected to not routinely violate the law.
Who's suggesting training as an alternative to disciplinary action?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Training as a method to prevent mistakes is an entirely different matter.
Interesting question. Why did the issue of training come up in a debate about thugs in blue?
Which has been suggested by me where exactly? In fact, for many police departments if an officer who is currently in the probationary period with their FTO, or who is in their first year gets into any trouble they can be fired immediately. Again, I have no problem with police who have committed a crime being sent to prison. I have no problem with removing unreasonable legal protections from police officers. With greater power comes commensurate responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Cool. So we all agree we should be talking about how to get criminals in blue behind bars.
I would wager even Lewk wants to be able to get criminals in blue behind bars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
I don't think this is the edgy position you seem to believe it is.
Which criminals do you believe Lewk wants to see behind bars?
In the midst of an epidemic of police brutality he saw fit to post a thread titled 'why police is needed'. But more important; politicians seem to be rather reluctant to retract special protection for thugs in blue. Their police unions have more of organized crime than they have of worker representation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
Uppity nigger types who have ideas about leaving their God given place (well away from white enclaves) . Not thugs in blue who attribute no value to a human life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
No. He wants them dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
This is the problem, Lewk is glad all these people died and can't see what the Police did wrong. So a few innocent men died, so what? In his eyes they're not even fully human and at least others who maybe stole a toothpaste are dead.
Ridiculous. The society I desire would be one where innocent people have no fear of police and criminals are too terrified of them to commit crime. Innocent people dying at the hands of the police is ALWAYS a tragedy.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
The society we have is one where innocent people are getting murdered and terrified. Yet when do you criticise the Police? Any examples?
Edit: Should have said you have. The one we have is one where the Police don't carry firearms and don't kill people. Maybe your Police should be disarmed too until they learn not to murder people.
Justice for Sal was many years ago but that's the first one I mentioned. Pretty sure I mentioned the idiocy of the police shooting the black dude with the autistic patient.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Don't try to backtrack, we know the nigger is by definition not innocent in your world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
These fuckers:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbLom13W...pg&name=medium
killed this different but gentle and happy young man:
Twitter Link
filling his last moments on earth with panic and pain:
Twitter Link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbTTwiDX...jpg&name=small
threatening him:
Twitter Link
Because someone felt it was "sketchy" that he was dancing down the street wearing a balaclava while listening to music.
https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/the-k...g-we-know.html
This is why you need [to punish] the police. These killers should be in jail—or, at the very least, no longer employed by any law enforcement agency. So that they and their ilk learn not to kill harmless young men who play the violin to soothe shelter cats.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbTY0rwX...jpg&name=small
Acab? Acab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
It's certainly a reasonable heuristic in the US.