Why?

Wait, you had me read a thread wherein Lolli goes hypocritical by saying "can't we all be nicer" after dropping a few from-nowhere bitchy bombs on me over the last couple of weeks, and then the thread degenerates into regulating how long posts are, and some cheerleading about how we could make some more interesting threads?

Gee, thanks.

Tell you what: I was wrong to mention Loki, because it was in a thread other than where he was practicing his typical manipulative and dishonest dickery. From here on I will not flame another forum member unless they have directly solicited that response by being an ass. This has generally been my policy in the past, and I'm pretty good at responding negatively only when provoked. But I do stray on occasion, and I will attempt to rectify that.

I will not, however, turn the other cheek to provocations, but just agree not to provoke in my own right. The job of cleaning up provocateurs is that of the mods and the community as a whole, not me.

Additionally, I reserve the right to make legitimate points that happens to hurt somebody's excessively over sensitive and dramatic feelings, like the comments on house size. People can disagree with me, and obviously many (but not all) did. But the point was a legitimate and long-held one, and one that is supported by sound reason. So sorry it ruffled somebody's feathers, but really that's just tough shit. If you have an open community, regulating conduct not really relevant to the free exchange of ideas is reasonable, pending the general agreement of the community. Stifling legitimate ideas? Not so much.

It doesn't matter if it's hypocritical, what matters is that it's a good idea to be nice in the D&D forum, and I hope that we can manage it. If we can't then I hope mods make sure to stomp a little on provocateurs as well as on those who rise to their bait.

Right! Trollers aren't criminals, it's the people who respond to trollers who are!!!

Well logicked.

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

Right! Trollers aren't criminals, it's the people who respond to trollers who are!!!

Well logicked.

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Since when are you such a staunch supporter of vigilante justice?

Anyway, here's how I see it: if that sort of behaviour is both undesirable and avoidable, then people who choose not to avoid behaving that way should be reprimanded, even when it's me. It's the only way to stomp it out completely. Getting a friendly reminder to cool it and to be polite isn't the same as being put in prison anyway :o

And, at any rate, for the past few days everyone has been making a conscientious effort - and the tone of D&D improved greatly.

Cut the shit, please.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

And, at any rate, for the past few days everyone has been making a conscientious effort - and the tone of D&D improved greatly.

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Exactly, and it's great to see :up:

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

Wait, you had me read a thread wherein Lolli goes hypocritical by saying "can't we all be nicer" after dropping a few from-nowhere bitchy bombs on me over the last couple of weeks, and then the thread degenerates into regulating how long posts are, and some cheerleading about how we could make some more interesting threads?

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Remember how dumb it was that Kerry was called a "flip-flopper"? Yeah. People can change, people respond to the general atmosphere of the forum, people can get sick of other people. Cries of hypocrisy should, from you in particular, be left un-cried.

That said, it is fantastically incomprehensible, IMO, that both of our moderators asked you to read this thread as some kind of guide-line on how to behave. Their response, inasmuch as it existed, to my similar complaints was "pooh-pooh" and "generate more interesting content! :up:!" The naivete of the official line here is staggering; people are simply told to "keep up a positive spirit", "chin up sonny" and so on, all the while some caustic posters respond to each thread with a proverbial kick right in the teeth. What is the point of being nice and posting happy thoughts day after day in the hopes that maybe this thread won't be shitted into oblivion?

Best dysfunctional family ever...

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

Additionally, I reserve the right to make legitimate points that happens to hurt somebody's excessively over sensitive and dramatic feelings, like the comments on house size.

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And everyone who recognizes what a hypocritical, judgemental dick you are when you do it reserve the right to call you as you are. Call that the Copper Rule; you don't want to be treated like you're a dick, then don't act like a dick. Pretty simple.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

It doesn't matter if it's hypocritical, what matters is that it's a good idea to be nice in the D&D forum, and I hope that we can manage it. If we can't then I hope mods make sure to stomp a little on provocateurs as well as on those who rise to their bait.

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Woops. Just rose to the bait . . . got tolled again.... :( Sorry everybody, I'm weak.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Woops. Just rose to the bait . . . got tolled again.... :( Sorry everybody, I'm weak.

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You're only responsible for your own behavior. You were bad, you admitted it, and now you can move on.

While I would appreciate it if this particular thread didn't evolve into a bitchfest, for the moment I am only trying to clean up D&D, so it can actually be what it is meant to be.

Just a thought.

(notice I avoided being baited, women are superior to men and don't forget it ;))

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

Just a thought.

(notice I avoided being baited, women are superior to men and don't forget it ;))

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I noticed and well done. I will live your example hence forth.

But my mention of the house issue was relevant to the thread, and thus could not be considered trolling. Well done, Chaloobi.

But since you are the one who violated the "code of civility," I can respond in kind by calling you the whiny little bitch you are.

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

But my mention of the house issue was relevant to the thread, and thus could not be considered trolling. Well done, Chaloobi.

But since you are the one who violated the "code of civility," I can respond in kind by calling you the whiny little bitch you are.

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So is it pussy you think you can garner by this kind of behaviour? Or what? Don't be a jackass.

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

But my mention of the house issue was relevant to the thread, and thus could not be considered trolling. Well done, Chaloobi.

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It really wasn't relevant to this thread.

You, like all the rest of us, are only responsible for your own actions (or words, in this case).

*sigh*

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

It really wasn't relevant to this thread.

You, like all the rest of us, are only responsible for your own actions (or words, in this case).

*sigh*

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:D His post stands for itself so nothing need be said unless I want to have a flame war. :D


And I do not.


Copper - behave in a way that will elicit the treatment from others you would like.

Gold - treat others the way you'd like them to treat you.

Platinum - treat others the way they want to be treated.

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

It really wasn't relevant to this thread.

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BS. It was utterly relevant, and validated in this thread. I reserve the right to make reasonable on-topic comments, even if somebody can't handle them and decides to flame. Under no circumstances should I be held responsible for somebody else's going ballistic. It wasn't a troll, and any resulting flames are NOT my responsibility. I have this policy because the forum has NEVER enforced its no trolling rule, even in CC.

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You, like all the rest of us, are only responsible for your own actions (or words, in this case).

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Of course I am. I take responsibility for calling Chaloobi a whiny bitch in response to his calling me a dick. But I don't take responsibility for starting the flaming, nor did I troll him. But I damn well reserve the right to defend myself, because our wimpy mods will not and never have. If people decide to change that, let me know and I'll gladly roll with the changes {cue REO}. But until it has changed, don't go knocking on my door and expect me to turn the other cheek while others are initiating far more nastiness to me than vice versa. Ain't gonna happen.

This was precisely the point I wanted to make in my post, it was totally relevant and on topic, and then Chaloobi illustrated the point for me. I'm not in the wrong on this, and Chaloobi was in the wrong. *IF* I am in the wrong on something like that, I'll accept the opprobrium.

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*sigh*

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The sanctimony isn't sitting well with me after you dropped some out-of-the-blue bitchy comments on me recently. I'd accept it from Dread or Rand but not you, because you're just being a hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

:D His post stands for itself so nothing need be said unless I want to have a flame war. :D


And I do not.


Copper - behave in a way that will elicit the treatment from others you would like.

Gold - treat others the way you'd like them to treat you.

Platinum - treat others the way they want to be treated.

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And you couldn't walk away. Feel free to blame it on me, though.

I find it curious in a thread about not having flame wars you're working so hard to start one, even going so far as to taunt me for abstaining.

Stop pretending comments like this "points that happens to hurt somebody's excessively over sensitive and dramatic feelings," and this " even if somebody can't handle them " are neutral observations of reality. They are nothing but personal attacks. For reasons that honestly mystify me you clearly posted with the intent to needle me and provoke the response you got. And that behavior is exactly what this thread is an appeal to stop. Nobody likes it, its unprovoked, unnecessary, and disruptive, so why don't you just stop it?

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

I find it curious in a thread about not having flame wars you're working so hard to start one, even going so far as to taunt me for abstaining.

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1) Not a taunt.

2) Not abstaining:
"Copper - behave in a way that will elicit the treatment from others you would like.

Gold - treat others the way you'd like them to treat you.

Platinum - treat others the way they want to be treated."

Chiding moralism is not abstaining.

If you see someone fat on the street, do you come up to them and tell them they deserve it for not having self-control? If not strangers, do you do it to all your acquaintances?

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Originally Posted by Loki

If you see someone fat on the street, do you come up to them and tell them they deserve it for not having self-control? If not strangers, do you do it to all your acquaintances?

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Icky, do you remember what you told me? It was, oh, I don't know, roughly an hour ago. Maybe a little more, but certainly less than two hours ago.

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

1) Not a taunt.

2) Not abstaining:
"Copper - behave in a way that will elicit the treatment from others you would like.

Gold - treat others the way you'd like them to treat you.

Platinum - treat others the way they want to be treated."

Chiding moralism is not abstaining.

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#1. Have you ever considered that what you say may come across differently to the community than what you intend ? And assume for just a second that it does; in that case do you hold yourself responsible for the result, or the community?

#2. There is no intended attack against you in the Rules. It was more directed at myself. They can't work unless you first follow them yourself, after all. But my mistake, in this charged environment I should have been more clear.

I pretty much always assume that my perception of what happens is not necessarily that of others'. Isn't this true for everybody? All sensation involves interpretation, and all interpretation is subjective. Especially with language, which is such an inefficient connection.

Ok, so when you first posted here and you used this statement: "points that happens to hurt somebody's excessively over sensitive and dramatic feelings," I took it as a clear personal attack against me. And while I don't want to pretend to know what anyone else thinks, it appears as though others saw those comments the same way. Is that what you intended when you made those comments, to take a swipe at me?

']['ear, you're an ass. Again.

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Originally Posted by Nessus

Remember how dumb it was that Kerry was called a "flip-flopper"? Yeah. People can change, people respond to the general atmosphere of the forum, people can get sick of other people. Cries of hypocrisy should, from you in particular, be left un-cried.

That said, it is fantastically incomprehensible, IMO, that both of our moderators asked you to read this thread as some kind of guide-line on how to behave. Their response, inasmuch as it existed, to my similar complaints was "pooh-pooh" and "generate more interesting content! :up:!" The naivete of the official line here is staggering; people are simply told to "keep up a positive spirit", "chin up sonny" and so on, all the while some caustic posters respond to each thread with a proverbial kick right in the teeth. What is the point of being nice and posting happy thoughts day after day in the hopes that maybe this thread won't be shitted into oblivion?

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I'm not quite certain I understand what you are trying to say here.

For starters I don't think that Rand and Dread are that far off the mark putting the responsability back at our doorstep. For them to enforce a strict set of guidelines on content would open an entirely new can of worms. I can't blame them for not wanting to put themselves on the line and getting the flak for it. Not to mention the fact that you run the risk of this forum killing itself through interfactional warring.

I also don't think that what we should necessarily strive for is people 'being nice' in D&D. That would be totally impossible given the people that post here. That is not just about personalities, but also about the range opinions we hold. Speaking from my position; I can change my attitude towards you as a person, as I have in the last few months. What I can not is change my ideas about (for example) Rand's ideas about Europe. I think he is totally wrong to the point that his ideas are despicable and I could never admit that there is any merit to them.

NB : as for the 'devil's advocate' game people are proposing; that can be fun but it's the kind of thing that according to me belongs in the playground of GC more than in D&D

NNBB : I think we have debated Eyekhan's house enough already, I also think indeed that bringing it up again amounts to trolling.

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Originally Posted by Hazir

I also don't think that what we should necessarily strive for is people 'being nice' in D&D. That would be totally impossible given the people that post here. That is not just about personalities, but also about the range opinions we hold. Speaking from my position; I can change my attitude towards you as a person, as I have in the last few months. What I can not is change my ideas about (for example) Rand's ideas about Europe. I think he is totally wrong to the point that his ideas are despicable and I could never admit that there is any merit to them.

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It's not so much "being nice" as it is that it isn't necessary to, for example, bring up Chacha's house repeatedly. I only used that example because it was already started in this thread, I do not mean to imply it is the only possible example or that Tear is the only person who does such a thing. There is a reason I was so pleased that this thread was previously filled with people discussing the ability to change without pointing fingers.

Who ever said everyone has to agree about everything, or anything. But quit dragging the same grudges into every thread so they all look like copies of one another.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Ok, so when you first posted here and you used this statement: "points that happens to hurt somebody's excessively over sensitive and dramatic feelings," I took it as a clear personal attack against me. And while I don't want to pretend to know what anyone else thinks, it appears as though others saw those comments the same way. Is that what you intended when you made those comments, to take a swipe at me?

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It was pretty obviously targeted directly at you, yes. Tear's big on lying to himself about not baiting people. He may not be in Kane's league, but that's not exactly high praise.

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

It's not so much "being nice" as it is that it isn't necessary to, for example, bring up Chacha's house repeatedly. I only used that example because it was already started in this thread, I do not mean to imply it is the only possible example or that Tear is the only person who does such a thing. There is a reason I was so pleased that this thread was previously filled with people discussing the ability to change without pointing fingers.

Who ever said everyone has to agree about everything, or anything. But quit dragging the same grudges into every thread so they all look like copies of one another.

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It was the most germane example. Posting a legitimate idea may draw flames but not be trolling. The most significant example in my recent life was the big house debate. Thus I brought it up as an example.

Not allowed to bring up examples? Lord knows wouldn't want somebody to get their feathers ruffled!

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

It was pretty obviously targeted directly at you, yes. Tear's big on lying to himself about not baiting people. He may not be in Kane's league, but that's not exactly high praise.

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Sanctimony blah, blah, blah. Thanks for such a novel contribution, as well as the reminder that you would never chide Cain! I feel so special, and bask in the warmth of your cyber-stalking.

Would it be too hard for you to just try? Please.

If one thread turns into a wreck, there is no reason to drag the same shit to a different one. That's all.

So I'm asking you nicely, Tear. This is the last time I will, though. Begging doesn't suit me.

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

Would it be too hard for you to just try? Please.

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To provide a germane example, someone who posts primarily so they can lash out at strangers rather than their wife would find it too hard, yes.

I think I already said that I would. I also said that if somebody else is consistently an ass, I won't refrain for long. Whatever people may think of me, in the large majority of scuffles I didn't start it, but my motto has always been that I'll finish it. The main exception is Lewkowski, but since his posting must be ingenuous to a certain degree, one could consider smart-ass replies de rigueur.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

To provide a germane example, someone who posts primarily so they can lash out at strangers rather than their wife would find it too hard, yes.

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What the hell are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

I think I already said that I would. I also said that if somebody else is consistently an ass, I won't refrain for long. Whatever people may think of me, in the large majority of scuffles I didn't start it, but my motto has always been that I'll finish it. The main exception is Lewkowski, but since his posting must be ingenuous to a certain degree, one could consider smart-ass replies de rigueur.

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Thank you.

Could you consider all your current scuffles finished? :p

Naw, I'd like Fuzzy to clarify his cryptic statement.

Well at least keep it contained to one place. :)

I appreciate it.

Do I have to drink my tea with my pinky extended as well? Pinkus erectus? :p

Since that's the only part of you I get to have erect.... :p