What's messing with your Groove?

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Originally Posted by Timbuk2

'Llusions - have you repeated what you have told us here to your parents?

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I haven't mentioned the what would potentially be an improvement in my work flow, but I have previously brought up the fact that since I'm the one doing the chores it should be when it makes most sense for me to do it, but their logic is that if they have to wait for it to get done (ie. they're impatient) then they'll just end up doing it themselves.

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Originally Posted by GGT

Illusions posted a bit ago so you're here....was hoping you'd come back and update about the family-home living situation. I could use a third party opinion. Do you pay rent or 'contribute' to daily things by giving your folks some money? How does that whole thing work out....

It's messing with my groove. :(

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No rent. I pay for all the stuff only I myself use, but this means they pay for stuff like food, laundry detergent, utilities, etc. I've offered to pay for stuff, however they usually don't take me up on it, and when I do go and buy stuff everyone uses, they'll pay me back even if I tell them its on me. :bored:

I pay them back with chores mainly.

Edit: Except food and equipment. If I buy food and don't keep it for myself everyone will eat it or drink it. The whole network in my house is equipment I've bought and spent time (lots of time) setting up and maintaining. Their current family computer is still running because it has parts from my old undergrad desktop installed in it. Also I build and setup any DIY furniture they get.

Hmm :thinking:

I plan to charge my son rent in some form. Otherwise, he'll just feel like it's the same way it was back in his HS hey days. Draining the hot water tank with 30 minute showers, raiding the fridge at midnight (actually, he's doing that right now), deciding to do laundry at 3am, etc.

Plus, I figure if he has to "pay" toward expenses in a routine way, he'll ACT more like a "boarder" than just feeling "entitled" like a kid.

Makes me wonder if you and your folks had a contract, and you paid a nominal amount, if they'd treat you with respect and some boundaries that aren't there when you're "just another member of the family"?

This stuff is really NOT easy. :(

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Originally Posted by Illusions

...this is on top of using various web resources to teach myself the current versions of the CSS, HTML, XHTML, Javascript/jQuery and PHP languages...

...I have no programming background what-so-ever... :(

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You could always do what everyone does does, at least WRT PHP and j*. Steal it from someone else. There are plenty of folks out there who post useful webscripting functions for virtually unrestricted reuse. I can't tell you how many years of work I've saved myself with something like:

<!--Credit to [the dumbass I took this from] -->

[Paste code]

...

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Originally Posted by GGT

Illusions posted a bit ago so you're here....was hoping you'd come back and update about the family-home living situation. I could use a third party opinion. Do you pay rent or 'contribute' to daily things by giving your folks some money? How does that whole thing work out....

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Depends entirely on whether or not you give a shit about your kid eventually moving out and getting a life of his own. If you do, it's probably best to let him "pay rent" in doing chores/household work and the like... so he can actually save up enough money to pay to move out. Especially in this shitty economy - it's not like the 90's when anyone with an IQ over 65 could land a high paying e-commerce job. These days, you're lucky if your degree moves you to the front of the line for a cashier position.

Charge the kid rent and it'll just take him longer to save up the few grand it takes to move out and find his own apartment.

Maybe you should encourage the guy to find a sugar-mommy. Certainly faster and easier than actually working for it.

Oh, I know. :( He's 19 years old and decided to "take a semester off from college" because he wants to save money, go to Europe or South America for a few months, then come back and return to studies. Assuming he'll find himself and mature, before declaring a major and buckling down as a serious student.

Both good and bad, pro and con to his decision. It was fun while he had an apartment with a friend, until that guy decided to move back to Chicago "because this town sucks".

It's not the same situation as Illusions. But I've never been in this situation before, from either end. :confused:

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Originally Posted by CitizenCain

You could always do what everyone does does, at least WRT PHP and j*. Steal it from someone else. There are plenty of folks out there who post useful webscripting functions for virtually unrestricted reuse. I can't tell you how many years of work I've saved myself with something like:

<!--Credit to [the dumbass I took this from] -->

[Paste code]

...

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w3schools has a lot of useful references, as does the actual jQuery site, but some of the suggestions by the posters aren't so useful (in that they're either hacks which might not work in the future, or are workarounds that cause problems elsewhere). For instance, my contact information is rather sparse and does not really need a whole page, so I made its link in the navigation bar into an aesthetically pleasing box that shows up below "Contact" when its clicked. jQuery handles turning this thing on. It also turns it off whenever you either click "Contact" again, press the "close" text in the actual box, hit "esc" on your keyboard, or click anywhere on the page that isn't the box. Some of the suggestions for the latter behavior had as suggestions including spawning a <div> below said object and when its clicked removing both of them, and another had a script where the mouse was polled every so often...which seemed unnecessary for my purposes, the mouse is either in the box, or its not.

I do not envy you programmers. Making things idiot proof, intuitive, clean coded, functional, useful, modular, and with options, and in several languages is not in any way easy...

Tomorrow's annoyance: The fact that no one working on CSS ever thought anyone would want to vertically center a <div> element. Rounded corners on borders? Yeah we have that. Shadows? Yep. Vertical centering a <div> element...is it even a proposed change? :sour:

I also have a new found dislike of IE. Is it really that hard to be standards compliant IE? IS IT!?

16 hour day. W00t?

I pay them back with chores mainly.

That's problematic.

It's only been like a week and he's already said, "But I worked 50 hours this week, I need some down time". Also, "This is a bad time for me to do chores, it's my only day off".

I was considering a Coupon System in lieu of cash changing hands. If I treat his "help around the house" as things with a dollar value, then he can choose the timing. That doesn't work for stuff like change the cat box litter.

But maybe that's why the fish tank tending chore is a bugaboo for you, Illusions? If they 'hired' a fish-taker, it wouldn't be okay to let it go or do it a 3am or.....

:cry:

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Originally Posted by GGT

I pay them back with chores mainly.

That's problematic.

It's only been like a week and he's already said, "But I worked 50 hours this week, I need some down time". Also, "This is a bad time for me to do chores, it's my only day off".

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When I think this I remind myself that my parents are providing me with a house to live in, food, and various supplies, and then I do the chore.

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But maybe that's why the fish tank tending chore is a bugaboo for you, Illusions?

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Its a bugaboo for me because it is their typical behavior of cheaping out on equipment, and then having myself or my brothers pick up the slack of them having purchased inferior equipment (in this case a water heater and thermometer). Its not only problematic because of the equipment, but because if we offer to buy better equipment or pay to make the situation easier they'll decline.

Then what do I say now? You're okay doing fish tank and doggie chores because you're grateful, but you can't get your work done, to get a job and move out, as things are going now? They say jump and you ask how high?

So you were just venting and actually agree to live under those arrangements, because it's saving you money?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Then what do I say now? You're okay doing fish tank and doggie chores because you're grateful, but you can't get your work done, to get a job and move out, as things are going now? They say jump and you ask how high?

So you were just venting and actually agree to live under those arrangements, because it's saving you money?

:confused:

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:confused: No, I'm being realistic about my situation. I don't like doing these things, but I realize that I should do them as my parents are providing me with things I would otherwise have to pay for. My complaint is that I can't do these things under my own conditions, however this complaint does not free me from having to do them. A lot of it is venting since this is the "What's messing with your groove?" thread. This venting is because doing said chores slows down my work, which I need to get done so I can move out eventually and stop doing these chores (at least for other people, and how they want them done) :noob:

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Originally Posted by GGT

Assuming he'll find himself and mature, before declaring a major and buckling down as a serious student.

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Do yourself a favor and never say that to him.

Also prepare yourself for the possibility that he'll never "buckle down" and become a serious student. I never did, and God knows, I'm happier for not doing it. Maybe he'll be better off for learning that a lot of shit in life is just not worth working hard for. Why are you wanting him to buckle down and become a "serious student" anyway? Only thing that's useful for is getting a Ph.D. ... which would seem to be at odds with you wanting him to be financially independent before he's 30. :D

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Originally Posted by Illusions

w3schools has a lot of useful references, as does the actual jQuery site, but some of the suggestions by the posters aren't so useful (in that they're either hacks which might not work in the future, or are workarounds that cause problems elsewhere).

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There are plenty of entirely FOSS libraries for common web tasks like contact forms... not all of it is hacks and tiny functions you have to piece together.

Just a bit of advice, though... use PHP instead of jQuery or JS, etc. Doing everything server-side gives you a level of control you just can't get out of a client-side language. Plus, users can't break your site by turning off an option in their browser or having an old version of whatever installed on their PCs. Well, I guess that's my preference, at least - if it's not yours, just keep in mind that doing anything client-side means the user has a much greater ability to fuck it all up.

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Originally Posted by Illusions

I do not envy you programmers. Making things idiot proof, intuitive, clean coded, functional, useful, modular, and with options, and in several languages is not in any way easy...

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Oh, fuck no. I'm IT. The most programming I do is scripting a few programs to play nicely with each others' input/output. Precisely because programming is such a shitty thing to be stuck doing 8 hours a day. But to be fair, most programmers hate web development for precisely the reasons you're complaining about - it's all hacky and basically an exercise in trying to get half a dozen different languages to work together to do something they were never designed to do.

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Originally Posted by Illusions

:confused: No, I'm being realistic about my situation. I don't like doing these things, but I realize that I should do them as my parents are providing me with things I would otherwise have to pay for. My complaint is that I can't do these things under my own conditions, however this complaint does not free me from having to do them. A lot of it is venting since this is the "What's messing with your groove?" thread. This venting is because doing said chores slows down my work, which I need to get done so I can move out eventually and stop doing these chores (at least for other people, and how they want them done) :noob:

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There's a lot of good to be said about having a roof over your head.

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Originally Posted by CitizenCain

There are plenty of entirely FOSS libraries for common web tasks like contact forms... not all of it is hacks and tiny functions you have to piece together.

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Thanks, I'll have to look into the FOSS libraries. Having a contact form would give me a reason to have a contact page, which would solve wtf to do with the contact link in the footer.

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Just a bit of advice, though... use PHP instead of jQuery or JS, etc. Doing everything server-side gives you a level of control you just can't get out of a client-side language. Plus, users can't break your site by turning off an option in their browser or having an old version of whatever installed on their PCs. Well, I guess that's my preference, at least - if it's not yours, just keep in mind that doing anything client-side means the user has a much greater ability to fuck it all up.

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I've been using jQuery mainly for user interactions, like hiding the navigation bar, or bringing up and closing the contact information pop-up/box mainly via CSS manipulation. I'm unsure if PHP can do this, but if you think it can I'll look into it. I've mainly been focusing on using PHP to make the site modular and easily changeable in the future. That way if someone tells me the navigation bar sucks horribly, I change it once, not once for each page it appears on.

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But to be fair, most programmers hate web development for precisely the reasons you're complaining about - it's all hacky and basically an exercise in trying to get half a dozen different languages to work together to do something they were never designed to do.

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I don't really want to think what people doing this as their actual job have to deal with. As a person, I can easily say "Screw it, I don't care how good it looks in IE6" and eat the consequences, but they don't get to make that choice... :bulb:

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Originally Posted by CitizenCain

Precisely because programming is such a shitty thing to be stuck doing 8 hours a day.

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:(

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Originally Posted by CitizenCain

Do yourself a favor and never say that to him.

Also prepare yourself for the possibility that he'll never "buckle down" and become a serious student. I never did, and God knows, I'm happier for not doing it. Maybe he'll be better off for learning that a lot of shit in life is just not worth working hard for. Why are you wanting him to buckle down and become a "serious student" anyway? Only thing that's useful for is getting a Ph.D. ... which would seem to be at odds with you wanting him to be financially independent before he's 30. :D

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Thanks :) but you missed the point that HE said these things, not me. I played the traditional mommy gig and suggested that being in college is as good a place as any, to wait out a recession. Whether he knew "what he wanted to major in" or not. That college was a great learning / social experience, timed to being 21 years old at graduation and all that mommy mumbo jumbo.

HE has other ideas. This is his transition. HE sort of blew me away by saying he didn't want to be 25 or 30 years old, needing to come back home because he isn't employable, and he thought it was smarter to wait for a degree until he's sure about which one. (No offense to Illusions ;) )

He felt bad enough to come back home at 19, saying he didn't want to be "like a college drop-out living in his mom's basement" and he doesn't want to work for minimum wage at a pizza joint, working his way up to manager or even owner.

After yesterdays wonderful road trip i'm back in the office today. I've not enjoyed myself that much in such a long time, it pains me to have to come back to the norm! Me and the fellow lady colleague have however decided to annoy her manager (The artist now known as 'The Jealous One') with fake stories of us being in a dark/empty part of a warehouse and how we both are feeling rather tired due to excessive 'sexual' antics!

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Originally Posted by Illusions

Thanks, I'll have to look into the FOSS libraries. Having a contact form would give me a reason to have a contact page, which would solve wtf to do with the contact link in the footer.

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Yeah, search for free webform scripts in Google and you'll be hit with more than you could possibly ever use. A lot of them are even pretty slick and don't require any programming skills to put up on your site.

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Originally Posted by Illusions

I've been using jQuery mainly for user interactions, like hiding the navigation bar, or bringing up and closing the contact information pop-up/box mainly via CSS manipulation. I'm unsure if PHP can do this, but if you think it can I'll look into it. I've mainly been focusing on using PHP to make the site modular and easily changeable in the future. That way if someone tells me the navigation bar sucks horribly, I change it once, not once for each page it appears on.

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I'm not sure about the full capabilities of PHP, (seeing as how I do my best to avoid actually programming anything as much as possible :D) but I've used it for dynamic HTML tasks in the past - hiding/revealing parts of a webpage, inserting text dynamically, even adjusting formatting based on user actions.

So I'm pretty sure it could be used to do what you want, meaning I'd have to imagine that it's probably more a question of whether or not it's worth the effort to make PHP do something that it's a lot easier to do with whatever other language.

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Originally Posted by Wraith

:(

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Hey, someone's gotta do it. Better you than me. If it works for you, good - I'd just rather power-sand my penis for 8 hours a day than type code into an IDE full-time. <shudder>

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Originally Posted by GGT

Thanks :) but you missed the point that HE said these things, not me. I played the traditional mommy gig and suggested that being in college is as good a place as any, to wait out a recession. Whether he knew "what he wanted to major in" or not. That college was a great learning / social experience, timed to being 21 years old at graduation and all that mommy mumbo jumbo.

HE has other ideas. This is his transition. HE sort of blew me away by saying he didn't want to be 25 or 30 years old, needing to come back home because he isn't employable, and he thought it was smarter to wait for a degree until he's sure about which one. (No offense to Illusions ;) )

He felt bad enough to come back home at 19, saying he didn't want to be "like a college drop-out living in his mom's basement" and he doesn't want to work for minimum wage at a pizza joint, working his way up to manager or even owner.

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Well, he does have a point there.

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Originally Posted by CitizenCain

programming is such a shitty thing to be stuck doing 8 hours a day.

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Originally Posted by Wraith

:(

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Hey I loved programming. I did it for nine years.

Things could be far worse. You could be doing Project Management. :headbang:

I'm now applying to leave my safe, comfortable, well-paid existence just to get back to programming.

But then my programming was front-end database development - so certainly not the most complex of languages and tools to work with. But I throughly enjoyed it all the same.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

Well, he does have a point there.

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Sure, and I'm proud of him for thinking it through. :)

He's beginning to show some patterns that are worrying me. He can come and go by the back door that's connected to his room. I never go in his room when he's gone and always knock when he's here. He's been smoking pot in there (which is against House Rules). I can smell it. We had a little confrontation about that, and today he locked his room from inside and left by the back door on his way to work. This bugs me because he KNOWS I have a fear of fire, and worry about things like smoldering smokes around furniture or careless ashtray dumping. There's a smoke detector in there, but his cavalier attitude is NOT a good sign.

If he expects me to treat him like a young adult with privacy and boundaries, he can damn well treat this home with respect and follow the fucking house rules. That he won't step outside the back door to smoke a joint (there's even patio furniture, it's a nice place!) is just disrespectful and inconsiderate. That's House Rule #1 - Be considerate and respectful of brother and mother.

:mad: :cry:

This just in!

Teen Discovered to Have Cavalier Attitude!

Tune in next week when we relate the story of a puppy that poos on the carpet!

~

You just have to drill this rule home Gee.

Smoking pot indoors is unacceptable to you. Tell him you won't stand for it.

Tell him you respect his boundaries, his space, his privacy, which you do and that is great, it really is ... but that you have your boundaries too, and he is overstepping them with this.

And that's beside the very real fire risk and the fact that smoking pot is illegal.

Borrowing a cue from "What happens in Vegas"

Take his fucking door off.

My parents threatened that when we were kids, if we slammed doors my dad would take them off the hinges. :)

Not sure how to do that with a pocket door, though. Would have to rip off the door jam and cut the plaster to get it off the track.

This is hard. Not to moan too much but being a single parent is hard. The kid is smart and knows how to push my buttons. I reminded him of the "legality" thing and he went into a manipulative debate, when it wasn't up for debate or negotiation. (He likes to remind me that I used to smoke pot and drink booze when I was a teen, yay.)


:flail:

If he wants to be treated like an adult, remind him about the responsibilities and requirements of being an adult. :noob:

It's around 88° outside right now. Definitely not the best time of day to have been outside digging a hole for mom's newest tree.

GGT, you could screw the pocket door open. Or a stop in the "jamb".

Also, if he wishes to smoke in the house against your wishes...make him pay your homeowners insurance.
That is one of my big fears as a smoker too. More than one time on the way to "anyplace" I have turned around and gone back to double check that I put that smoke out.

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Originally Posted by Illusions

I've been using jQuery mainly for user interactions, like hiding the navigation bar, or bringing up and closing the contact information pop-up/box mainly via CSS manipulation.

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I love jQuery for this sort of work. Normalises the browser environment sufficiently that I don't get the usual desire to stab IE users in the neck. Progressive enhancement is the right way to go. :up:

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I don't really want to think what people doing this as their actual job have to deal with. As a person, I can easily say "Screw it, I don't care how good it looks in IE6" and eat the consequences, but they don't get to make that choice... :bulb:

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We hit that point a while back and unilaterally decided that IE6 was not worth the trouble of supporting it. Anyone sufficiently daft to stick with it can put up with a few styling bugs. We expected shit from management, but it never arrived.

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Originally Posted by CitizenCain

Precisely because programming is such a shitty thing to be stuck doing 8 hours a day. But to be fair, most programmers hate web development for precisely the reasons you're complaining about - it's all hacky and basically an exercise in trying to get half a dozen different languages to work together to do something they were never designed to do.

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I spend most of my working day doing that sort of work. We do our best to limit the hackyness, but programming for web development got old a while back. Fortunately there is enough variety in the parts of the 'business' that I work on that I don't go mad from boredom. That said, I've had enough and I'm trying to get something more research oriented. There's bound to be something cool to be done with all the data we're gathering...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8636455.stm

Got the reviews back from Dev Cell. 3 reviewers claim it's a good Dev Cell paper with some minor writing changes and a couple of small experiments (some of which we have done). 2 clearly loved it and used superlatives. 4th reviewer disliked the paper, but showed in three places that he didn't understand the experiments. Naturally the editor rejected it. ARGH!

That said, we're in a great position for a rebuttal and fighting to get it in. I'm just tired of the horse shit. One Dev Cell paper plus a few little ones can almost guarantee the next grant, but sometimes you have to fight tooth and nail to get it in. Grr.



Edit: And appropos of the conversation above, at times like this I find anything computers a brilliant career choice. You'll always have a well-paying job. My father told me this in 1979 when he bought me that early generation personal computer, but I had no interest. Talk about being handed the world on a silver platter: my father spelled out how to become wealthy--"master this, and you'll be a millionaire." I'm stupid (but still not interested.).

Thanks Bitter, that's a good idea about the door jamb. :) He had a buddy over for a chat and pipe--on the patio. :D