How, should I vote in the EU referendum ?

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Originally Posted by Loki

Let's see who has power in the EU.

The European Council: composed of the heads of state/government of the EU states. Britain has direct control over one person there, but not the rest. That one person is supposed to represent British interests. US equivalent = Senate. I vote for the Georgian senators. They represent Georgia's interests. I have 0 influence over the other 98 Senators, and they have quite a lot of power over me.

The Senate are not equivalent. The Senate, since the 17th Amendment at least, are elected to the Senate with the Senate being the reason they were elected.

The Council are not elected for the sake of going to the Council. There is no equivalence whatsoever.

Not to forget that the US is a country and the EU is not. We have our own Parliament in the UK.

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Council of Ministers: composed of ministers from most European states, who are effectively the heads of the EU bureaucracy. You don't vote for your minister, though you do vote for the party that appoints him/her. Equivalent: US secretaries. I vote for the president. I have no direct say over who becomes Secretary of State, Defense, etc.

Your elected President selects Secretary of State etc (though I prefer our system where they are generally MPs).

Not to forget that again the US is a country and the EU is not. We have our own Cabinet in the UK.

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European parliament: equivalent to the US House. Only difference is you haven't given it enough powers to be relevant.

Agreed and whose fault is that? It is the fault of those who chose to give powers to the EU without accountability.

Not to forget that again the US is a country and the EU is not. We have our own Parliament in the UK.

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European Court of Justice: each state gets a judge, who are then meant to be neutral. Equivalent: US Supreme Court. In fact, you at least have more direct influence over who one of the judges is. As a Georgian, I have 0 influence over the makeup of the Supreme Court. I get a say over who the president is and who two of the Senators are (both with a role in choosing SC justices), but I'm 1 out of 200,000,000 eligible voters and my senators are but 2 of 100. You get 1 out of 28.

The ECJ is more overtly political. The fact that nations have their own representative is a bad thing not a good one. SCOTUS are meant to be neutral and while they have their own judicial leanings they are consistent in that.

Not to forget that again the US is a country and the EU is not. We have our own Supreme Court in the UK.

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There's no EU president, but that's because the Eurosceptics don't want one. Furthermore, if we think of the EU as a parliamentary system, there's no democratic deficit merely because of the absence of this position.

There are four EU Presidents actually. Furthermore the EU is not as the Eurosceptics want, the Eurosceptics are never the ones who gave powers to the EU. It is the Europhiles who did that. The Europhiles need to own the democratic accountability for the powers they gave away against the sceptics wishes, not blame sceptics for doing badly that which the sceptics said should not be done :rolleyes:

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You get direct say over the European Parliament and indirect say through the British Parliament. If you don't like what the British representatives do to represent your interests in the EU, vote for a different party.

And if we are outvoted? Question for you on how many times under QMV has the UK voted against a proposed law? Under how many times under QMV has the UK voted against a proposed law and it has been rejected?

Again the UK is its own nation, it is not a state within a federal government.

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And the reason eurocrats have so much power is because the EU has numerous responsibilities but Eurosceptics aren't willing to allow the creation of elected bodies to carry out those responsibilities.

Bullshit. If the Eurosceptics were in control the whole time then the EU wouldn't have the powers in the first place.