And high heels, too! :D
And high heels, too! :D
We were talking about whether or not a ban could be effective, not about immigration.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
You also think the police should go by what a battered wife states when deciding on when to act or not against her abusive husband?Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Nah, I just honed in on your suggestion that this (banning burqas) was about emancipating women from restrictive things. For their own good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
No, it's about putting an end to their husbands abusing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Do you actually think this law will do that? Because in the realm of "how Islamic fundies abuse their women," it seems to me that making them cover their faces in public barely qualifies as abuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Really, at least the face-covered chicks didn't get fucked to death on their weeding night, 3 weeks before their 11th birthday.
I know you have a huge boner for immigrants for some reason, this'd be more up Lewk's alley, but one of the fun things these Mohammedan rascals have thought up is smuggling in several wives and only letting the authorities know one exists; it's easy to pass one off as another when they all look like featureless lumps of cloth that're barely allowed to make noises. Now I obviously don't have the kind of experience you do when it comes to maintaining a rape dungeon, but it seems to me this'd be a prime situation to treat these women pretty much as you please without risk of getting caught or reprimanded in any way.
Well, don't they achieve that anyway by not letting their women-property leave the house unescorted by a man? You don't even need the rape dungeon and chains and the like when your women-properties won't go outside if they get the chance (of course, the dungeon and chains and torture toys do make the whole rape experience more fun, but they're not strictly required).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
I mean, I get it - why the Low Peoples are doing this, and what they're trying to accomplish (or claim they're trying to accomplish, anyway), but I just don't see how this is going actually accomplish anything, except for maybe getting a bunch of mall Santas arrested years from now. Seems like a completely do-nothing law that's just political pandering and may or may not come back to bite them down the road once the public's forgotten (or chooses to ignore) the original intent of the law.
Hell no. I chill easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
The idea that this law was made out of some concern over the repression of these women is laughable.
You can wear a blanket.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
Probably not. It'll be mistaken for a burka, and he'll get throw in jail naked... which seems like an undesirable fate, even for a gay guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
No, this law alone will not end the abuse, but it's part of a whole range of measures that need to be taken for it to end.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
You, and the average American can not understand how these people live in Europe; they don't work, they don't contribute to society. All they do is collect their Welfare and Child support and bitch about the society that's giving them the handouts.
The atmosphere in Europe is not at all that these laws are introduced to do nothing. People will expect them to be enforced, because they are fed up with these leeches.
We have a term for fabrics you wear, Lolli. We call them CLOTHES!Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
Meanwhile, other people can wear whatever they want. Still. Its almost as if legislating what people can wear would be kind of... fascist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-rights.html
True. This law seems purely about pandering to anti-immigration/terrorism groups of knuckleheads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowheart
Hazir - i recognise you are close to this culture and as such are probably not just being a mindless racist, but all your talk of "these people" and "these leeches" is rediculous. You dont legislate for the purpose of controlling the actions of a VERY small number of citizens just because they dont dress how you want them to. The abuse issue is another matter entirely. This law is being raised purely and simply to please idiots who see in the veil the most obvious (and least threatening?) symbol of the things the scare them/the things they want to use as a scapegoat for all their problems.
I know am talking about a very small group of people at all. But I also have a pretty clear picture what these people are about, both from my professional as my private experiences. I do see them as a big problem for society as a whole and I do think society would be a lot better off with their anti-social culture being curtailed. I think I might have fewer problems with them if they at least would make a living for themselves, but that is also not in the books. They just sit on their fat asses, bitching about the very same people thay pay their welfare and child support.
At the same time I hate people like Wilders here in Holland who with their cheap populism and zero use of brainpower blame all their problems on immigrants.
How has that worked for you guys in the past?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
Is this true? People can't wear cross necklaces? Pass such a law in parts of the US, you'd think that you might triple the amount of available gold in the world. Except that it's usually gold plating. :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ivan80
It's true for Holland too; people in Holland have got very little tolerance for any religion trying to usurp part of the public sphere. You'd be mistaken to think this is just anti-Islam. It's about all religions. People who want to make headscarves illegal have no qualms about having to swipe out all other religious symbols if that's what it takes.
Here in Amsterdam recently a tramway-driver was sacked because he refused to wear his cross under his shirt.
But they really aren't, are they? People of any other religion changing their tradition garb? Priests no longer wearing collars? Which, BTW, is a terrible idea, because then how do you know whom to keep your kids the hell away from?
I laughed. And then felt guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by ']['ear
The point was that the object being banned isn't really worn by anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Heh. I can make jokes like this. I was raised Catholic, until I realized that the ***holes were all about their power. Imagine my shock when the abuse coverups started being uncovered. [/sarcasm]Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
I don't know, you hardly ever see them. The last time I saw a person who I could recognize as a priest was in Istanbul. Imams you typically can't recognize at all neither in Istanbul nor in Amsterdam.Quote:
Originally Posted by ']['ear
And Loki, I don't care if it's one or one thousand, I don't want to contribute to their life-style through my taxes.
No, I understand completely - we have black people (and Democrats) in America for that function.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Seriously, where do you think those stereotypes come from?
The solution isn't to instill dress code requirements in the law... it's to take away the social services these people are abusing. In America, at least, you're not even eligible to apply for (let alone receive) any government benefits until you've got a Green Card. Hence, no problem with burkaed immigrants collecting welfare while bitching about America. I know that's not "enlightened" and "compassionate" like Europe, or is a violation of the basic human right to get money for nothing... or whatever... but if you ask me, it's a better solution to your problem than imposing dress codes. (What the fuck is your continent? A bloody high school? Because that's the last place in life one should encounter legally enforced dress codes, IMO.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
Because they already live in your countries, with many practically living in a parallel country within your borders.Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
So why not take away the welfare? Giving people handouts with one hand (so they don't have to work among the native population and change their habits) while trying to legislate away their culture with another is a waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
My haircutters are Lebanese, one Druze and one Christian. They often employ other Lebanese. At one point they had a Lebanese Shia woman working there. One day she came in after having been married to a Pakistani for a year demanding to wear a veil at work. The owners said no; they felt it would make customers uncomfortable and be kinda stupid for her to cover her hair in a haircutting place. So they let her go.
Sometimes it seems like the "reality in Europe" is that such a woman would never had a job in the first place, as her family would get abundant benefits to just plop down and have some kids.
Yes, that is the sad reality. And I totally would agree with stripping them of all their unearned benefits. I am pretty certain that given the choice between being homeless and hungry and their stupid dress codes they'd be able to make the right choice themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
Stopped reading here; thread over.
So it's okay to strong-arm Ching-Ping China-man because he's a Johnny Foreigner, but using force against your own citizens (or resident immigrants, at any rate) is a no-no? That's a funny opinion from a Yank given your penal system etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Not too good, some of humanity survived! Better luck the next time 'round, huh? :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by '
As a side-note I only live in one country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
I still don't see where those masses should come from. There are masses of Muslims, true, but only a tiny number of female Muslims within Europe wear burqas.
The same has happened in the UK, people in the workplace being told to wear their cross under their shirt/blouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
But laws and requirements in the workplace fall within a whole different sphere than laws relating to just walking down the street.
I have no issue with employers (public or private) banning burqas and crosses.
I am ill-at-ease banning burqas and crosses from anyone just going about their business walking down the street.