God Bless America

If he was an alcoholic stealing mouthwash (with alcohol in it) it might make more sense. Meth cookers can't even steal pseudoephedrine now, because it's all behind-the-counter. No idea why toothpaste would be his target, since CVS also carries snack foods, TP, coffee, etc.

I think he was probably mentally ill, but now we'll never know.

:(

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

You calling me a bastard? :mad:

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Well, a well armed one, at least.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

Even if you dont believe that hes trolling, cant you all just be satisfied that Lewk will burn in hell for the massive hardon he gets when a petty criminal is choked to death?

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I don't believe in Hell. Do you??? :confused: I guess I could be satisfied that because he believes in it that at some point he'll have to come to grips with giving Satan a sloppy wet kiss, but he doesn't seem to understand Christianity well enough to realize that. I don't know. There's just no satisfying way to deal with garbage threads like this except ignore them.

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Originally Posted by GGT

Then let's see if he comes back to answer this:

Lewk, will you beat your little boy if he steals a cookie at home? Will you use a belt or a switch or your fists? Then will you tell him to get down on his knees and pray to God for forgiveNess since he's nothing more than a low-life thief?

If he's suspected of stealing a pack of gum from CVS (or a tube of toothpaste) should he be hunted down and choked to death?

Do you gather family around and sing God Bless America every time a "criminal" gets shot in the back?

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That's too personal for my taste, asking him about his family I mean. Sad just to think about stuff like that happening - and it does happen, doesn't it. And for awful reasons like this too.... :(

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Originally Posted by Nessus

Hell is other people

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No. Hell is slouching through life so jaded and cynical that you say things like "Hell is other people." :( and :p

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

America is truly a strange land. First of all, the guy actually steals a tube of toothpaste and another guy kills for stealing his toothpaste. Is there something we don't know about toothpaste in America? Like, does it produce some kind of dizzying high?

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You Brits wouldn't understand toothpaste the way Americans do....

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Well, a well armed one, at least.

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I don't have a satisfactory response to this :mad:

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

I don't have a satisfactory response to this :mad:

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Strangle me. That's what Jesus would do.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Strangle me. That's what Jesus would do.

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And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

...That's too personal for my taste, asking him about his family I mean. Sad just to think about stuff like that happening - and it does happen, doesn't it. And for awful reasons like this too.... :(

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Okay, then I'll ask Lewk this instead: if this is how you think suspected petty thieves should be treated, how do you think children should be taught that stealing is wrong, and how do you believe youngsters incorporate this value?

Can values be taught through fear alone?

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Originally Posted by GGT

Can values be taught through fear alone?

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Yes, absolutely. Oh wait, values? Yes, yes they can. Bad ones, but they can. Fear is the Great Educator. We learn best when we're very afraid of the consequences of not learning.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Yes, absolutely. Oh wait, values? Yes, yes they can. Bad ones, but they can. Fear is the Great Educator. We learn best when we're very afraid of the consequences of not learning.

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Learning what, though? Fear of getting caught stealing isn't the same thing as internally incorporating the value that theft is "wrong".

So several points I will try to once again explain my position.

1. I applaud people defending themselves and their property. It is truly an awesome thing when citizens without the aid of the government stand up and defend their neighborhood from scum.

2. I believe strong deterrents work. If you knew that a store will prosecute over shoplifting, if you know the employees their will violently defend the stores property, how likely are you to steal from that store? Every time something like this goes on the news I am very pleased. Criminals should FEAR the citizens and the police.

3. He was a criminal! He made his choice. He chose to forcefully deprive someone else of their property. Why do people continue to have sympathy for these animals?

4. I actually would not realistically support the death penalty for stealing toothpaste. Just like I wouldn't support the death penalty for trespassing and vandalizing someone's decorations on their home. HOWEVER - I fully support the right of the owner of the property to take ANY means necessary in protecting said property.

In this particular case I'm mostly happy that the CVS employee was not charged.

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defend

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I don't think you actually understand what this word means.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

So several points I will try to once again explain my position.

1. I applaud people defending themselves and their property. It is truly an awesome thing when citizens without the aid of the government stand up and defend their neighborhood from scum.

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A guy employed by CVS to run the register isn't "defending his property" when a petty thief pockets some two dollar tube of toothpaste. The cashier wasn't even force to defend himself, like from a robber with a gun pointed at his face.

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2. I believe strong deterrents work. If you knew that a store will prosecute over shoplifting, if you know the employees their will violently defend the stores property, how likely are you to steal from that store? Every time something like this goes on the news I am very pleased. Criminals should FEAR the citizens and the police.

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Is this like saying we should chop off the hands of thieves, so no one will steal? Even the barbaric cultures that do that STILL experience various forms of theft and robbery. Try again.

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3. He was a criminal! He made his choice. He chose to forcefully deprive someone else of their property. Why do people continue to have sympathy for these animals?

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By definition, one can only be a "criminal" after a court or judge has decided that. Because, you know, sometimes mistakes are made and have to be processed.

One time :donkey: I came home from the grocery store with a few small items that didn't get scanned, and I didn't pay for them, but they ended up in my bag anyway. I suppose I should have been fearful that someone would chase me down and strangle me.

Also, he didn't forcefully DO anything. He had some fricking toothpaste tubes 'on his person', and the CVS cashier chased after him after he left the store.

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4. I actually would not realistically support the death penalty for stealing toothpaste. Just like I wouldn't support the death penalty for trespassing and vandalizing someone's decorations on their home. HOWEVER - I fully support the right of the owner of the property to take ANY means necessary in protecting said property.

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Right. You mean like fatally shooting anyone in their back, as they appear to be trying to get away with some bags of stuff?

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In this particular case I'm mostly happy that the CVS employee was not charged.

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You're happy he wasn't charged with what, exactly? Some degree of murder or manslaughter? Not following the CVS protocol of "not taking the law into their own hands"?

It's fricking toothpaste, Lewk.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

I believe strong deterrents work.

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Could be. We'll see if CVS strengthens the negative consequences for their employees chasing a shoplifter. And if this employee is prosecuted for murder (for which event I will pray), employees may re-think using force to apprehend petty criminals. {caveat: if the employee was indeed negligent, which I suspect is the case since "strangling" is a brick-stupid means of subduing somebody unless you are well trained.}

Lewk is an Insurance dude. Is that ironic or pathetic?

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A guy employed by CVS to run the register isn't "defending his property" when a petty thief pockets some two dollar tube of toothpaste.

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How does the quantity matter? Maybe he also pocketed other items. Where do you draw the line on what is or is not property?

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Is this like saying we should chop off the hands of thieves, so no one will steal? Even the barbaric cultures that do that STILL experience various forms of theft and robbery. Try again.

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Well logic would dictate that thieves without hands aren't going to have long careers! :)

Furthermore the likelihood of being caught is a BIG factor in deterrence issues. This little punk shoplifter never would have dreamed the police would go after him for toothpaste. But now petty shoplifters everywhere can wet their pants thinking about being hunted down and justly eliminated.

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By definition, one can only be a "criminal" after a court or judge has decided that. Because, you know, sometimes mistakes are made and have to be processed.

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Well I'm not talking about legal terms. The way I use the word is someone who commits crimes. Weather or not a jury finds you guilty you are still a criminal. Do you think the Enron CEO was a criminal? You know he was never convicted because he died before the trail finished. He is still a criminal according to the way I and most people use the word.

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One time I came home from the grocery store with a few small items that didn't get scanned, and I didn't pay for them, but they ended up in my bag anyway. I suppose I should have been fearful that someone would chase me down and strangle me.

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And if a store clerk was chasing you, you would stop running and let them search your bags. Seriously its not like I would support the automatic killing for a simple mistake. This person stole, then ran and then put up a struggle.

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Right. You mean like fatally shooting anyone in their back, as they appear to be trying to get away with some bags of stuff?

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Judgment calls are judgment calls. If someone shoots someone who was not stealing/trespassing then yes charges would be filed. If it turns out they are stealing then sure, its open season baby! :)

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You're happy he wasn't charged with what, exactly? Some degree of murder or manslaughter? Not following the CVS protocol of "not taking the law into their own hands"?

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He could have been charged with manslaughter pretty easily. Or depending how much of a liberal shit the DA is they could have tried murder 2.

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Originally Posted by ']['ear

Could be. We'll see if CVS strengthens the negative consequences for their employees chasing a shoplifter. And if this employee is prosecuted for murder (for which event I will pray), employees may re-think using force to apprehend petty criminals. {caveat: if the employee was indeed negligent, which I suspect is the case since "strangling" is a brick-stupid means of subduing somebody unless you are well trained.}

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Well considering the guys adrenaline was pumping and his heart pounding a 100 miles an hour he may not have been using the best possible method of bringing someone down. But really, its hard to argue with the results. The guy did get subdued... for good.

Why don't you just admit to yourself that you enjoy the death and suffering of other living creatures? Then you wouldn't have to go through this stupid rigmarole of trying to pass off your glee at the end of a human life as "defending property rights" ?

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

How does the quantity matter? Maybe he also pocketed other items. Where do you draw the line on what is or is not property?

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Are you serious? Maybe he pocketed other items and ZOMG how do we draw the line on WHEN TO HUNT THEM DOWN AND CHOKE THEM TO DEATH? His property or not, dude, seriously, toothpaste would not be the line.

In fact, nothing in a pharmacy justifies killing a perp. It's all replaceable, and it's all INSURED for loss. But once you kill a person, there's no bringing them back.

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Well logic would dictate that thieves without hands aren't going to have long careers! :)

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Got it, let's cut off all hands, because you never know when someone MIGHT steal. Plus, all theft must involve hands and opposing thumbs. Perhaps we should just amputate all human thumbs as a prevention against future theft!

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Furthermore the likelihood of being caught is a BIG factor in deterrence issues. This little punk shoplifter never would have dreamed the police would go after him for toothpaste. But now petty shoplifters everywhere can wet their pants thinking about being hunted down and justly eliminated.

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I'm sure all teenagers will immediately stop lifting a bottle of nail polish, or a free soda. Because you call them names AND promise vigilante justice. What will you do with the stealth grape-eater-testers in the grocery store? Follow them home and cut out their tongues?

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Well I'm not talking about legal terms. The way I use the word is someone who commits crimes. Weather or not a jury finds you guilty you are still a criminal. Do you think the Enron CEO was a criminal? You know he was never convicted because he died before the trail finished. He is still a criminal according to the way I and most people use the word.

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Of course you're not talking in legal terms. You want to be sole judge, jury and executioner, in a country of laws and jurisprudence.

So, you are encouraging others to act illegally as a way to justify your personal views of "vigilante justice". Can we give you a lobotomy now, since your brain seems to be dangerous to others?

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And if a store clerk was chasing you, you would stop running and let them search your bags. Seriously its not like I would support the automatic killing for a simple mistake. This person stole, then ran and then put up a struggle.

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Now running is proof of guilt? If someone started to chase me, and I didn't know why, do you think I'd stand still and ask, or maybe run to my car?

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Judgment calls are judgment calls. If someone shoots someone who was not stealing/trespassing then yes charges would be filed. If it turns out they are stealing then sure, its open season baby! :)

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In this story there was no gun, no shooting, no threats. Open season BABY?

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He could have been charged with manslaughter pretty easily. Or depending how much of a liberal shit the DA is they could have tried murder 2.

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When things get tough, Lewk just says liberal. :donkey:

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3. He was a criminal! He made his choice. He chose to forcefully deprive someone else of their property. Why do people continue to have sympathy for these animals?

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I realise you have no empathy, which is why you're such a heartless monster I guess, but the rest of us do. We're able to imagine what other people may be thinking or feeling and what might motivate them to a) steal some minor convenience items and b) chase someone down and accidentally kill them[1]
Because we can imagine being in their shoes we can recognise this for thetragedy that it is.

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But now petty shoplifters everywhere can wet their pants thinking about being hunted down and justly eliminated.

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Disproportionate retribution is not and never will be Just.


[1]I'm giving the CVS employee the benefit of the doubt: that this killing was accidental.

Jesus christ Lewk, you're a psychopath. Do you really have a family or are you just wearing someone's skin like a cardigan while keeping his family locked in the basement?

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In fact, nothing in a pharmacy justifies killing a perp. It's all replaceable, and it's all INSURED for loss. But once you kill a person, there's no bringing them back.

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So in other words the fact that it is toothpaste doesn't matter, why bring it up then?

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Got it, let's cut off all hands, because you never know when someone MIGHT steal.

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And then the government would be stealing hands from people. This has nothing to do with if they will steal it has everything to do with applauding the protection of people and items from criminals.

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I'm sure all teenagers will immediately stop lifting a bottle of nail polish, or a free soda. Because you call them names AND promise vigilante justice.

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They might think twice in that town!

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So, you are encouraging others to act illegally as a way to justify your personal views of "vigilante justice". Can we give you a lobotomy now, since your brain seems to be dangerous to others?

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Oh so now your calling the store clerks behavior illegal? I thought we had to have a trail and all that first... ;)

Law enforcement isn't pursuing this so clearly his behavior was OK.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

So in other words the fact that it is toothpaste doesn't matter, why bring it up then?



And then the government would be stealing hands from people. This has nothing to do with if they will steal it has everything to do with applauding the protection of people and items from criminals.



They might think twice in that town!



Oh so now your calling the store clerks behavior illegal? I thought we had to have a trail and all that first... ;)

Law enforcement isn't pursuing this so clearly his behavior was OK.

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How did you form your base morality? Some archaic things from the Bible that are contextual, from our modern society that is contextual, or in your own brain that is rigid and extreme?

As I said before, someone is in for a big surprise on Judgement Day. I can just hear the Gatekeeper:

"Well, y'know, personally God forgives you, but since you went against the rules and you yourself want rules to be enforced at all costs, you'll wind up in Hell instead."

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

"Well, y'know, personally God forgives you, but since you went against the rules and you yourself want rules to be enforced at all costs, you'll wind up in Hell instead."

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Nah, I reckon learning that whole "infinite mercy" thing was true would be punishment enough and that heaven is full of gay couples holding hands, Jews and Arabs having conversations in cafes, Feminists painting murals on the walls, Freddy Mercury in drag singing "I want to break free" in the parks :up:

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

Since his post wasn't booked, I know what the moderator's take on this is :D

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Simple: This is pretty consistent with the views he's expressed for years and years in the past.

One of Lewk's heroes didn't fair so well. Maybe that's why they have no pursuit policies. The policy protects employees.

Geeg, honestly, dont try and point-by-point him on this. Hes spent enough time around the batfuck insane right wing in your country that he thinks stuff like "a criminal with no hands isnt going to have a long career" is both funny and true.

Spoiler:

(because in texas only the sound of body and white of skin are capable of any real accomplishments)

Though its funny when he asks how anyone can have sympathy for an "animal" who commits a petty crime and dies for it, despite -him- being the one who claims to be part of a religion from which all love and peace for ones fellow man springs. Even in texas they say "hate the sin, love the sinner". Lewk only loves these "animals" when they die in the dirt.

Luckily, even if hes right and there is a hell, he will be going to it, most like.

God: LEWKOWSKI. HMMM. WE SEEM TO HAVE REPORTS OF YOU CHEERING THE DEATH OF SOME OF MY POOREST AND LOWEST OF CHILDREN, THE ONES MY SON SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU TO LOVE
Lewk: But they took someones PROPERTY, father...

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

God: LEWKOWSKI. HMMM. WE SEEM TO HAVE REPORTS OF YOU CHEERING THE DEATH OF SOME OF MY POOREST AND LOWEST OF CHILDREN, THE ONES MY SON SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU TO LOVE
Lewk: But they took someones PROPERTY, father...

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God: TO THE BIG FIERY LAVA TOILET WITH YOU

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

Simple: This is pretty consistent with the views he's expressed for years and years in the past.

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I know. I wasn't questioning him not being booked or anything.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

Luckily, even if hes right and there is a hell, he will be going to it, most like.

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If he's right, I'll be in hell too. Sure it would be agony, but think of the perk of laughing at Lewk hanging next to you.

It almost makes me wish he's right.

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Originally Posted by GGT

In fact, nothing in a pharmacy justifies killing a perp.

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Fixed.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Why do people continue to have sympathy for these animals?
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Because they aren't animals? :confused:

Sigh. Why do I bother.

I think from now on we should all just resort to OG's mantra; "Lewk, you're a dumbass" whenever he posts anything.

All other arguments are circular.