It's not semantics. It's the definition of the word: sui caedere - to kill oneself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Does not make any mention of why or how you're killing yourself. Never heard of "suicide by cop"?
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It's not semantics. It's the definition of the word: sui caedere - to kill oneself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Does not make any mention of why or how you're killing yourself. Never heard of "suicide by cop"?
Quote:
The selfish little bastards
Even for you this is low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
I advice you to ask your spiritual adviser for some primers about what Jesus had to say about empathy.
Yeah, if only they could have talked to their teachers about that and been told that. Oh, wait..:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
You say that it is important to love your neighbor as yourself, but I have yet to see you say anything about the other students who made these kid's lives living hells. That is the second greatest commandment that they violated, and yet you are more keen to pass judgment on the children that were abused then the abusers themselves. Why not put these deaths into context, Lewk?
I didn't say suicide is "not so bad", I said it's not immoral and that there's no room for the kind of judgement you bring to the table. Your attitude does not help anyone; if anything, it hurts those who happen to be alive by making fun of them and making light of their pain. Have you ever spoken with a priest about these views you have?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Do you think there would be more or less suicides if more people shared your views on how to deal with mental health issues? Or, for that matter, your views on how to deal (or not) with any issue of social importance? :bulb:
No, essentially he's saying that his family and friends ultimately meant less to him than ending his great and unbearable suffering. That is a statement about the magnitude of his suffering, and the perceived hopelessness of his situation--not about his total disregard for their friends and family. Come on man, you speak English, so what gives?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Was Illusions right? :confused:
And what does the Bible have to say about this??Quote:
Those who do kill themselves should be vilified and mocked for what they did
No, they're far closer to being victims of torture.Quote:
They may be victims of bullying/assault/harassment but they aren't murder victims.
Hey Lewk, if you were ruthless and evil and wanted to make someone do something he doesn't want to do--eg. reveal Bin Laden's hideout, or stop talking back, or killing himself--how would you do it? This is not an abstract theoretical tangent; it's at the heart of this discussion.Quote:
They killed themselves, no one "made" them do it.
PS. I hear many bullied kids who commit suicide are told by their tormentors that it would be best if they killed themselves :( I can't believe you're supporting such animals.
Wait, what?? :weird:Quote:
2. Suicide is typically a response to short term pain.
Seriously? You're actually trying to deny that being in or having been in combat or combat zones isn't rife with triggers and stressors linked to suicidal ideation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Please, this is Lewk we're talking to.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
He'll deny anything as long as he thinks that his precious Bible didn't tell him about it, effectively shutting out anything we learned in the last 2,000 years. He's the poster boy of ignorance.
I find it a little confusing. Most priests etc. that I've met have been kind, decent and understanding. It's like their most ardent followers don't actually learn from their example or something
We have a pretty good number of the fire and brimstone type over here. :(
Fixed that for ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
As I said in my first post on this thread, I don't condone bullying and violence. Millions are bullied, its really a part of life in a public school. (Thank the teachers unions for that, but its a tangent). Millions don't kill themselves. The only reason this is being focused on is the number of suicides at the school. The suicide rate is the part that is different NOT the bullying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch the Red
I think trying to demean people who risk their lives for their country is pretty sick. Cain hates the military, police and any other type of armed authority, he's made it clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
Do some suicides happen in the military? Of course. Just like there are some criminals in the military, bringing the military into this discussion is absurd though. Any large body of people will have some bad apples.
Aimless -
Should murderers be vilified? Should rapist be vilified? At what point is it OK to illustrate examples of bad behavior? What about racists? Oh hey is it OK to vilify bullies? I'm just wondering where you draw the line. If its OK to vilify people who have done bad things then the discussion becomes is suicide a bad thing and I think it is. Look at the damage it does.
Now if you simply think its wrong to vilify anyone who is now deceased, we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.
We can illustrate all manner of "bad behaviors" without vilifying the people behind the behaviors....or lumping all "bad behavior" into one big group of "sinning".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Look at your own child, who will undoubtedly try to test limits of Right vs Wrong as he grows. Where will YOU draw the line? Will you chastize your son for telling little white lies...say, reading after bed time or lights out....by calling him a sinner for lying? Will you be an adult with some sense of grace and understanding, that little kids will do that kind of stuff? Or will you lump all lying into the same group as any other
"bad thing"
like suicide
because it does 'damage' to others?
Do you not think that just maybe the extent and nature of the bullying might, just might, be connected to the suicides at the school? Or are you basically just viewing them as a series of isolated and unconnected events?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Of course the bullying may have had an impact. Of course practicing a lifestyle that is unhealthy might also contribute to the issue too. Of course when I threw the idea out there that gays might be more likely to kill themselves I was barked at by the folks here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
We're on an express elevator to hell. Going down.
Yeah, what do you think the odds are that Lewk has an actual priest to consult? For some reason, visions of stereotypical fire-and-brimstone Southern preachers are dancing through my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
Oh, fuck you, you ignorant chickenhawk asshole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Did Lewk just try to whitewash the bullying because he thinks being gay makes you suicidal? Instead of, you know, the harrassment being the reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
My guess here is that Lewk was bullied in school, and because he didn't kill himself, it must mean, from his perspective, all bullying everywhere is the same, so the only difference between himself and these other kids are that they are gay, and don't have the same morals as he does, thus that must be the reason for the tendency towards suicide.
Meh. The simpler explanation is that Lewk hates faggots, and therefore, is looking for any excuse to condemn them. And in addition to be faggotly, these faggots are immoral for committing suicide. Who cares if they have a "valid" reason or not when all you're looking to do is find an excuse to hate you some faggots?Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusions
Sure how it looks to me, given his recent thoughts on why cops need to be excused for beating sick senior citizens to death. He likes cops, so any excuse for their behavior is sufficient, but he hates faggots, so no reason will will ever be enough.
Certainly seems to pass the Occam's razor test.
Not to be too Neanderthal, but after one time too many being bullied, I addressed the issue with my fists.
Took care of that.
Apparently got called Rocky behind my back after that incident...not exactly sure how that was meant...
It's shame that it has to come to that. At the same time, you gotta do something, and if you can't run and no-one helps you then fighting is better than freezing. But it's not a method you can rely on. Not all kids have what it takes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldan Rath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ziIfZx0XX5I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Ijc...eature=related
But what about Hanlon's?Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
Feel free to support your idea that being gay is "unhealthy" and may by a cause of suicide any time you like, you worthless maggot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
You say 'of course' there because it outrageously stupid and offensive and you couldn't reasonably have expected any other reaction, right?Quote:
Of course when I threw the idea out there that gays might be more likely to kill themselves I was barked at by the folks here.
Wait, what unhealthy lifestyle is he talking about? Is there something unhealthy about being gay? I mean, apart from destruction by the bigots in your environment.
Remind me the difference in the lifestyles of a straight and gay 13-year-old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Count yourself lucky. I had to send two guys to the ICU before the bullies and the guys who thought they were "hard" left me alone. I mean, I'm a little proud of it, in that there were four of them, and one of me, and those cocksuckers totally had it coming, but still... a completely nerve-racking month while the school and the cops and the prosecutor decided which way to go on that mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldan Rath
No, it's a method some can rely on, but it's an absolutely travesty that anyone's forced to, least of all in an institution the government forces people to attend. 'Course, if you're a skinny brain or a weak little drama geek (etc), you probably can't rely on fighting your way out, and there's just no escape or relief anywhere... which brings me back to my "some people just require metal-pipe attitude correction therapy" theory. From what I hear, the two guys I put in the hospital become model students and never said a mean word to anyone at their new school, so it can work. <shrug>Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
I think we know enough about Lewk to say, that whatever the reason, he definitely harbors at least some malice t'wards the faggots. No?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Lewk, you're making lots of statements as if they're fact, when they're not. At least not in the 21st century of life, but you'd have to put things into context to realize that. :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
1) "Bullying" has been around since forever, to some extent, but today's bullying 'as part of life in public school' isn't just some name-calling on the playground. Now it can mean being bullied at school, in chat rooms, on internet gaming and social sites, and via cell phones. It has a multiplying effect that follows today's kids everywhere they go, in the areas considered 'normal social activity', with a stalking mentality that goes viral.
2) This had nothing whatsoever to do with *teacher's unions*. :rolleyes:
3) War is violent. PTSD is real. Veteran suicidal ideation, attempted suicides, and completed suicides are at higher rates than ever. Even though war casualty and death rates are at historic lows. So you can't split out suicide/bullying, suicide/violence, suicide/war by inferring it's just within 'normal limits', related to 'unhealthy lifestyle', or 'bad apples' in the bunch.
4) While millions don't kill themselves, you can't run from current facts: more kids report being a victim of bullying, more kids are being treated for social anxiety, and depression with suicidal ideation; more military and veterans report anxiety, depression, PTSD, and suicidal thoughts; more teens and vets are killing themselves.
This is about changing mental health issues, along with the age-old de-bunked theory that those who exhibit self-destructive behavior or suicidal thoughts....just aren't strong enough to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. What century are you living in? :donkey:
The problem is that it's sometimes not easy to spot if you're neither victim nor perpetrator.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
For example, I teach Chemistry and Physics which are both so-called "short lessons", i.e. only two hours per week. With a workload of ~23.5 lessons per week, this works out to a maximum of 12 different classes with a corresponding maximum number of 360 pupils (usually well below that one, though. Real numbers are probably more like around 280 pupils).
In those two hours I have to get them to learn what I want them to learn, grade them, answer any questions they may have and, last but not least, instill discipline. The latter part, if successful, means that I never get to see obvious signs of bullying. Which leaves the non-obvious, subtle signs. Which are pretty easy to miss if you have to fight hard to remember who pupil X is because he never says anything unless you actively ask him to. And you usually have about at least 5 silent pupils in your class.
What it boils down to: If teachers discover bullying, it's because of random chance (they happen upon the pupils why bullying / they find notes / ...) or because they have enough time to really get to know their pupils. As I said, I see a class for about 90 minutes each week. That's not sufficient.
Oh, I understand why teachers can't be school cops or police bullying, and I don't blame the teachers - its the administrators, politicians and parents (plus the bullies themselves, natch) who deserve the blame for the existence of this situation.
Your attitude is the problem. By giving people an "out" that they can't "help themselves" when they become addicted or self-destructive you have given them an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Its that type of dis-empowerment that causes so many problems. This retarded culture of never blaming someone for their actions is repulsive. It creates a helpless mentality and constant excuse making. And if we have more diagnosed cases of social anxiety and depression it is because of this crap.
Sure, makes perfect sense. Blame suicidal teens for being depressed, and that'll fix everything. :rolleyes:
You still haven't said what self-destructive activities a 13-year-old gay child would engage in that their straight counterpart would not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Don't hold your breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Suicide, obviously
Also, faggotry.
Faggotry begets suicide being the main thrust of the argument
Yeah, our war vets with PTSD (previously called Shell Shocked in WWI) are just looking for an "out" to blame others, with excuses for their learned helplessness. How repulsive. :rolleyes: :donkey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
What, are you saying it doesn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus
I mean, for example, look at these dead faggots! Since no straight kid ever killed himself for being bullied, it must be the faggotry part, right? :confused: