In today's America, Kafka would be a citizen journalist

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Originally Posted by Loki

It does if they claim asylum. America has an obligation to hear their case.

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Well good luck putting a good case together at 5... Honestly it shouldn't be separate case. The parent has a case and decision is stay or not stay together. Seperating kids makes sense in certain situations but the ideal outcome would be a *very* speedy decision.

Ultimately I think we need to close a loophole in the Asylum laws. If you wish to claim asylum you must present yourself at a border checkpoint. NOT try to fucking sneak in and then try to claim asylum after you are caught. That's just retarded. Simple fix - if caught in the country illegally no asylum claim can be entertained by the courts.

https://orig00.deviantart.net/257e/f...chocolate9.jpg

From the mothers:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...7a3_story.html

I find it hilarious that, when you call the people who support or excuse this travesty by their true names, they get butthurt.

So a Cuban refugee gets on a boat, gets to Florida, claims asylum ... sorry you didn't present yourself at the border so denied. How does that work?

You have to understand, Lewk doesn't really believe in asylum in the first place. At a bare minimum, he probably thinks it should only be applied to those being directly abused by their governments. He certainly doesn't think it should apply to refugees, much less those running from things like lawlessness or cartels.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

You have to understand, Lewk doesn't really believe in asylum in the first place. At a bare minimum, he probably thinks it should only be applied to those being directly abused by their governments. He certainly doesn't think it should apply to refugees, much less those running from things like lawlessness or cartels.

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Generally yes, asylum should not be a catch all for vague concerns over potential violence. The simple fact is, Mexico and much of Central America is a shit hole. Nearly every single person there lives in poverty compared to the American standard of living. Should we allow EVERYONE to come in simply because their country is a shitty place? That's ridiculous.

By simply following the logic you must either give everyone who wants it asylum or you have to restrict to specific provable concerns that the powers of a country are persecuting people. The reality is that much of the immigration is economic in nature NOT fear of government or even cartel reprisal.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

So a Cuban refugee gets on a boat, gets to Florida, claims asylum ... sorry you didn't present yourself at the border so denied. How does that work?

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First step to see that it is a good faith effort is to report to the nearest harbor/coast guard/even local PD and turn themselves in. Not this bull shit of 'let me go hide among the population, get a job and then when I get caught I claim asylum.' Interestingly enough, historically Cubans who did make that trek have a better claim of real asylum because the government was persecuting and imprisoning dissidents.

How ableist of you. ;)

https://www.villainesse.com/no-filte...r-say-retarded


For the record I have no problem with using the term retarded I just like mocking the hypocrisy of liberals.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

First step to see that it is a good faith effort is to report to the nearest harbor/coast guard/even local PD and turn themselves in. Not this bull shit of 'let me go hide among the population, get a job and then when I get caught I claim asylum.' Interestingly enough, historically Cubans who did make that trek have a better claim of real asylum because the government was persecuting and imprisoning dissidents.

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But your government is persecuting and breaking up families who did report straight to the nearest guard/PD etc and turn themselves in immediately.

So your government's actions makes the logical thing for a genuine asylum seeker to do is to hide and then claim only if caught.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Generally yes, asylum should not be a catch all for vague concerns over potential violence. The simple fact is, Mexico and much of Central America is a shit hole. Nearly every single person there lives in poverty compared to the American standard of living. Should we allow EVERYONE to come in simply because their country is a shitty place? That's ridiculous.

By simply following the logic you must either give everyone who wants it asylum or you have to restrict to specific provable concerns that the powers of a country are persecuting people. The reality is that much of the immigration is economic in nature NOT fear of government or even cartel reprisal.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

First step to see that it is a good faith effort is to report to the nearest harbor/coast guard/even local PD and turn themselves in. Not this bull shit of 'let me go hide among the population, get a job and then when I get caught I claim asylum.'

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What's ridiculous is your attitude toward asylum-seekers, then supporting it with ignorance. :donkey:

The first step in determining whether someone is an economic migrant vs a refugee seeking asylum is done by interviews with border control agents. There's been a huge backlog for years due to under-funding and insufficient staff. We still only have about 350 judges to hear the claims (that pass the interview stage). That's why "catch-and-release" came about.

And now we have desperate families with children being turned away from the *legal/designated* points of entry, being told to "come back in a couple of weeks" because the line is too long. It's no wonder some might try to enter the US another way, when we've made it nearly impossible to do it the *legal* way. Sadly, it looks like the Trump administration shares your attitude. They don't want to add more immigration judges to review asylum cases. Because, ya know, they're all just taking advantage of us, lying and faking their way into our country. :rolleyes:

But they are willing to spend millions of dollars building internment camps on military bases, and will send Dept. of Defense lawyers to prosecute toddlers, after having separated them from their moms.

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Interestingly enough, historically Cubans who did make that trek have a better claim of real asylum because the government was persecuting and imprisoning dissidents.

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FYI Cubans had a "better" asylum claim because US policy gave them special status. It's changed over the decades so keep up:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...-united-states

Twitter Link

This is the sort of thing you'd expect to see in a shithole country.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

This is the sort of thing you'd expect to see in that makes the USA a shithole country.

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Fixed it for you.

There are no words for how repugnant the US government is right now, other than "Lewkowskian" (and you know he'd agree to put his name to this policy if he were asked): https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...portation.html

This thread makes for some difficult reading: https://mobile.twitter.com/KlasfeldR...27163137142784

Does anyone think there will be any accountability for this?

Nope.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

This thread makes for some difficult reading: https://mobile.twitter.com/KlasfeldR...27163137142784

Does anyone think there will be any accountability for this?

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With the countless idiots who spout: "But Obama did that, too!"?

Not really. The idiots don't really grasp the difference between what Obama did and what Trump is now doing.

It's getting better. I just discussed this matter with some die-hard Trumpsters.

They actually defend that shit. "It's the LAW!"

Completely ignoring that laws can be changed (who's in complete control of both of the executive and the legislative again?) and that also laws do not need to be enforced strictly.

I told them that this was the kind of thinking which would have made them great KZ wardens.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/07/0...eparation.html

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Records linking children to their parents have disappeared, and in some cases have been destroyed, according to two officials of the Department of Homeland Security, leaving the authorities struggling to identify connections between family members.

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I understand some people think that brown children don't matter and that brown people can't love their children, but how can mainstream Republicans go along with this?

Because it's The Law. And The Law has to be applied 100%.

Just not when it comes to something their own side is doing.

Because they don't think illegal immigrants are people (the more extreme ones don't think any immigrants or non-whites are people).

https://apnews.com/amp/4cb60fc06ca34160bf7445fdc1f47eed

This is fucking abominable. I can see why monstrous child-hating racists might want to talk about German bloggers instead.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

https://apnews.com/amp/4cb60fc06ca34160bf7445fdc1f47eed

This is fucking abominable. I can see why monstrous child-hating racists might want to talk about German bloggers instead.

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"Such children don't have a right to a court-appointed attorney, and 90 percent of kids without a lawyer are returned to their home countries, according to Kids in Need of Defense, a group that provides legal representation."

Every effort should be made to reunite them with their families in their home countries. It makes it sound like that 90% figure is too high, it should be higher.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Every effort should be made to reunite them with their families in their home countries. It makes it sound like that 90% figure is too high, it should be higher.

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You say *in their home countries* as if seeking asylum isn't a legally recognized right. And you gloss over the fact that US government agencies separated these minor children from their parents in the first place, and has 100% responsibility for reuniting them.

You sound just like the Trump acolytes on cable news shows that say, "These kids are victims of their parents' bad choices, so don't blame the Trump administration for carrying out The Law!" These are the same people that love to complain about bad immigration laws, Executive/Presidential overreach, and governmental incompetence. Give me a break :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by GGT

You say *in their home countries* as if seeking asylum isn't a legally recognized right. And you gloss over the fact that US government agencies separated these minor children from their parents in the first place, and has 100% responsibility for reuniting them.

You sound just like the Trump acolytes on cable news shows that say, "These kids are victims of their parents' bad choices, so don't blame the Trump administration for carrying out The Law!" These are the same people that love to complain about bad immigration laws, Executive/Presidential overreach, and governmental incompetence. Give me a break :rolleyes:

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I don't think people who sneak over the border should get to claim Asylum. I don't think that just because your country is a shit hole means we should say "oh yeah come on in." Otherwise literally every Mexican citizen could claim Asylum. That's insane and you might as well not even have a border.

I actually think separating kids and parents long distance is utterly stupid. They should be kept in facilities nearby or together depending on the circumstances. No catch and release however.

Now, people walking up to the border and turning themselves into authorities and saying they are claiming Asylum is how it *should* work. Those people I can accept some sort of nuance and if there is a decent surface level case we could issue ankle monitors or something.

Lewk, people fleeing for their lives aren't generally "walking up to the border". Especially after they've already made a journey of several thousand miles, across other nations, enduring untold hardships, not to mention legal and linguistic challenges. We have created some of those barriers through policy, and turned political differences into a humanitarian crisis.

Your ideas about how asylum *should* work can't be taken seriously when you doubt the validity of asylum in the first place. I'd try to take this to a moral level debate, and ask if/when you think it's understandable when desperate people break certain laws, sometimes without knowing it's illegal, in their pursuit of Life and Liberty....but then I remembered you're the guy that justified shooting poor people in the back for stealing toothpaste.

Twitter Link

'Murica!

Twitter Link

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Originally Posted by Aimless

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'Murica!

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My kids have 3 different last names. Fuck me?

We have to preserve America the beautiful for Evangelical fuckwits, they need a place to hang out while Satan gets hell ready for them.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

Twitter Link

'Murica!

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Just further evidence that government run organizations tend to have problems. Comes part and parcel in not being able to fire under-performers. How often are police officers and teachers fired thanks to the union that makes it difficult?

Call them what they are: Christianists.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Just further evidence that government run organizations tend to have problems. Comes part and parcel in not being able to fire under-performers. How often are police officers and teachers fired thanks to the union that makes it difficult?

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Teachers are fired way faster than you think. And cops? That's not the fault of unions - that's a fault of your system where police departments investigate their own instead of a proper independent institution.

You mean like Internal Affairs? That's already more separated than most other organisations.

I imagine objectively that a high proportion of Police than 'faster than you think' Teachers are fired.

Not in the US rand, there is no national or state standards governing the internal affairs process. Saying its "more separated" when compared to your average HR department is nothing more than hollywood magic.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Just further evidence that government run organizations tend to have problems.

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This is a bogus explanation. You aren't run by the govt but you're pretty fucked up. Govt doesn't magically create bad people, not even when it comes to cops and prison staff. If the TSA were private, its customers would be the government, not ordinary people. A private TSA wouldn't give any more of a shit about those people than a prison contractor does about the families of prisoners.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

A private TSA wouldn't give any more of a shit about those people than a prison contractor does about the families of prisoners.

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Lewk's already expressed his opinion that he is ok with this.

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

Lewk's already expressed his opinion that he is ok with this.

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Indeed, and I doubt he has a problem with the TSA.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

Teachers are fired way faster than you think. And cops? That's not the fault of unions - that's a fault of your system where police departments investigate their own instead of a proper independent institution.

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Not in places with strong unions. It is incredibly difficult to fire them even when it is obvious they are guilty of molestation. I'm too lazy to look it up but just look up rubber rooms New York teachers union for some reading if you are at all interested.

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Originally Posted by Aimless

This is a bogus explanation. You aren't run by the govt but you're pretty fucked up. Govt doesn't magically create bad people, not even when it comes to cops and prison staff. If the TSA were private, its customers would be the government, not ordinary people. A private TSA wouldn't give any more of a shit about those people than a prison contractor does about the families of prisoners.

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The issue is that government workers tend to be unionized and unions protect bad employees. In addition because there is no market pressure to perform better, management doesn't even spend that much time trying to improve performance and efficiency with their staff.

I suggest you read up on those rubber rooms, because it's pretty obvious you've missed the point.