covid-19

Lewk should read this,

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/,

thoroughly. Just because POTUS is above the law (or guidelines) doesn't mean everyone else is. Merchants are taking flak for trying to enforce Whitehouse Guidelines for Opening Up America Again.

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Advise citizens regarding protocols for social distancing and face coverings

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Continue to adhere to State and local guidance as well as complementary CDC guidance, particularly with respect to face coverings.

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Strongly consider using face coverings while in public, and particularly when using mass transit.

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Social distancing and protective equipment

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^ Just some of the bullet points he might have missed.

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Originally Posted by Being

Yeah, we can use that crappy excuse for this country's response too.

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It's not an excuse it's showing where information is lacking and it doesn't change anything. This isn't some morbid sporting league table. Does others doing worse make you feel better? I should hope not.

Take Spain for instance. Their data is missing a lot of care home deaths and the situation in Spanish care homes got so horrific that the Spanish military were called in to clear the dead out of them. If you think global coronavirus death figures are remotely accurate you're wrong.

Of course others doing worse makes you feel better. It gives you comfort that your own leaders are in control and making the right decisions.

It doesn't make it any less sad.

Maybe for you. Personally others doing better make me feel better, it gives me comfort that lessons can be learnt from them to make things better for us. Others doing worse makes me feel sad and worry that could happen to us if things get worse for us.

How can you learn lessons from others if you don't trust their numbers?

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

While the situation in the USA is atrocious (and I foresaw it in this thread) stats like that are nonsense. A great many nations aren't bothering to count how many of their citizens are dying from this, either because they aren't capable of doing so, or don't care.

I keep seeing idiots in this country say the UK has the second-highest death toll in the world after the USA, its nonsense, its just our figures are quite accurate while nations that were overwhelmed like Spain and Italy don't know how many died from it yet, while others like Brazil, Russia, Egypt and Iran neither care nor are capable of figuring it out either. Covid deaths worldwide will be an order of magnitude more than reported.

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While I agree that the numbers are not that easily comparable between countries, particularly with countries like Russia who even if they had the real numbers probably wouldn't share them.. what makes you think the UK numbers are quite accurate?

This is why we should be reporting excess deaths. Last I checked, the UK had the biggest percentage increase in the world. The next few countries had much higher population density, too.

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Originally Posted by Loki

This is why we should be reporting excess deaths. Last I checked, the UK had the biggest percentage increase in the world. The next few countries had much higher population density, too.

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You forgot to include the link,

UK Wrong Again

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Originally Posted by wiggin

Why do you even bother?

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Well, I found it quite interesting, so there's that.

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Originally Posted by gogobongopop

How can you learn lessons from others if you don't trust their numbers?

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You learn lessons from those doing well (Singapore, S Korea, Germany, New Zealand) not those doing badly or fraudulently.

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Originally Posted by Loki

This is why we should be reporting excess deaths. Last I checked, the UK had the biggest percentage increase in the world. The next few countries had much higher population density, too.

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Agreed that is a good indicator (it has its flaws too but much less).though that data isn't out yet for most nations.

It's out in enough to see that the UK is not doing very well.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...us-deaths.html

That's asking for login details on my phone. The UK has been struggling, nobody would deny that. My early guess would be we've struggled more than nations like Germany which can't just be explained by Germany's much lower population density but better than nations like Spain and Italy. But the data from Spain and Italy isn't in yet.

We're "struggling" because we have a lying, untrustworthy buffoon in charge.

Where is he, btw? It seems like as with other Tory muppets like Patel and Rees Mogg, he's being kept well away from the spotlight.

Oh, and you can learn lessons from those countries doing badly.

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Originally Posted by gogobongopop

We're "struggling" because we have a lying, untrustworthy buffoon in charge.

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Good description of the US predicament as well. We are certainly not the example to follow.

At least he's brave enough to face the public and take questions on a semi regular basis.

Ours in consistently AWOL. Laziest leader in the world.

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Originally Posted by gogobongopop

At least he's brave enough to face the public and take questions on a semi regular basis.

Ours in consistently AWOL. Laziest leader in the world.

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Ours nearly just died, had a child born a few days ago and isn't taking paternity leave as he's working on addressing the outbreak. But good to know where your humanity is.

Oh yes, bless poor old Boris the hero.

If he's well enough to work he should be leading this crisis from the front. He's chosen not to take paternity leave like a lot of fathers do. Nothing abnormal there.

His illness is his own doing and I've little sympathy for those without "common sense".

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Originally Posted by Randblade

That's asking for login details on my phone.

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United Kingdom +67% 53,300 Mar. 14 - May 1
Spain +60% 31,500 Mar. 16 - May 3
Belgium +50% 5,300 Mar. 16 - Apr. 19
Netherlands +50% 8,700 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Italy +49% 24,600 March
France +44% 28,500 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Sweden +27% 3,300 Mar. 16 - May 3
Switzerland +24% 2,000 Mar. 16 - May 3
Portugal +15% 1,300 Mar. 16 - Apr. 12
Austria +11% 1,000 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Germany +6% 4,100 Mar. 16 - Apr. 12
Denmark +5% 300 Mar. 16 - May 3
Norway +0% <100 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Finland +0% <100 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26

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Originally Posted by gogobongopop

Where is he, btw? It seems like as with other Tory muppets like Patel and Rees Mogg, he's being kept well away from the spotlight.

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I suspect they're keeping him away from the camera as much as possible because he's an awful speaker and listening to him stumble over his words and uming and ahhing his way through a prepared statement does not exactly instill confidence in These Uncertain Times™.

Twitter Link

When even Fox News says you're crazy.

Twitter Link

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Originally Posted by gogobongopop

At least he's brave enough to face the public and take questions on a semi regular basis.

Ours in consistently AWOL. Laziest leader in the world.

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He isn't being brave. He is campaigning. It's his only stage right now.

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Originally Posted by Being

He isn't being brave. He is campaigning. It's his only stage right now.

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Indeed. I can't believe gogo seriously would rather have a situation like in the USA were the experts like Fauci are pushed to one side and a jackass politician is campaigning and speaking crap. Right or wrong our government have the scientists fronting our response and not partisan politicians. America's response would be better if there was some less attention given to Trump.

I didn't say that at all. I said I wanted our PM to get off his lazy arse and do some work.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Indeed. I can't believe gogo seriously would rather have a situation like in the USA were the experts like Fauci are pushed to one side and a jackass politician is campaigning and speaking crap. Right or wrong our government have the scientists fronting our response and not partisan politicians. America's response would be better if there was some less attention given to Trump.

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Dude, your government screwed the pooch. Not that ours didn't. But get your head out of the sand.

Trump is also almost certainly lying about taking it. If he's not lying, his doctors really need to be replaced. But this is Trump. He has no problem telling bald-faced lies, even if they can and would hurt others, if it protects his ego. Probably even more so if it promotes something one of his companies is selling.

I was back at work today planning for a full week of work (still closed to the public) for a total of 4 hours before my wife called to tell me one of her students tested positive. So i'm back to working from home for the next 2 weeks. Fun fun.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Not a great look for Sweden.

I guess that after the crisis it will need an immense cover up to hide the facts.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

I suspect they're keeping him away from the camera as much as possible because he's an awful speaker and listening to him stumble over his words and uming and ahhing his way through a prepared statement does not exactly instill confidence in These Uncertain Times™.

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Indeed. He's an appalling communicator.

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Originally Posted by Hazir

I guess that after the crisis it will need an immense cover up to hide the facts.

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Lol no they've already decided to blame refugees and asylum seekers, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

While the situation in the USA is atrocious (and I foresaw it in this thread) stats like that are nonsense. A great many nations aren't bothering to count how many of their citizens are dying from this, either because they aren't capable of doing so, or don't care.

I keep seeing idiots in this country say the UK has the second-highest death toll in the world after the USA, its nonsense, its just our figures are quite accurate while nations that were overwhelmed like Spain and Italy don't know how many died from it yet, while others like Brazil, Russia, Egypt and Iran neither care nor are capable of figuring it out either. Covid deaths worldwide will be an order of magnitude more than reported.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

United Kingdom +67% 53,300 Mar. 14 - May 1
Spain +60% 31,500 Mar. 16 - May 3
Belgium +50% 5,300 Mar. 16 - Apr. 19
Netherlands +50% 8,700 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Italy +49% 24,600 March
France +44% 28,500 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Sweden +27% 3,300 Mar. 16 - May 3
Switzerland +24% 2,000 Mar. 16 - May 3
Portugal +15% 1,300 Mar. 16 - Apr. 12
Austria +11% 1,000 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Germany +6% 4,100 Mar. 16 - Apr. 12
Denmark +5% 300 Mar. 16 - May 3
Norway +0% <100 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26
Finland +0% <100 Mar. 16 - Apr. 26

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Looks to me like Spain is counting more accurately if I look at that. So again, I am curious, what makes you say the UK counts so accurately? Is that based on anything other than 'the numbers say we're not better than the rest so we must be counting better'?

Looks like only Belgium can claim their counting is somewhat reliable - which is incidentally also why they're reporting the highest deaths per capita. Hard to say though since their numbers are more outdated.

That's the problem the numbers are so out of date for most places. It will take time to see the full figures.

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is the reported Spanish figure doesn't include care home fatalities.

Excess deaths include everything.

Indeed which is why when all is done that will be the best number to use though it's got its flaws too. The numbers aren't out yet for many nations.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

That's the problem the numbers are so out of date for most places. It will take time to see the full figures.

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is the reported Spanish figure doesn't include care home fatalities.

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Another apropos excuse for your government's bungling?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...-toll-70759719

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Indeed which is why when all is done that will be the best number to use though it's got its flaws too. The numbers aren't out yet for many nations.

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They are out for most countries in the UK comparison group. Unless you want to compare your country to Zimbabwe or Paraguay.

Ouch. That last UK government daily briefing was a total car crash. I can't see Angela McLean appearing again. One more like that and I'm sure the government will cancel them.

Good questions though. It seems we're finally piercing through the government spin and rehtoric and exposing what really happened.

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Originally Posted by Being

Another apropos excuse for your government's bungling?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...-toll-70759719

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That's not news, that the UK lacked sufficient testing capacity at the start is something that's been obvious for a long time and its something that has had to be built up.

Some good news, my county has announced no deaths for the third day in a row. :) Fingers crossed it stays that way.

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Originally Posted by Loki

They are out for most countries in the UK comparison group. Unless you want to compare your country to Zimbabwe or Paraguay.

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UK figures go to May, Italy to March, and you think that's comparable?

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

UK figures go to May, Italy to March, and you think that's comparable?

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He said "most" countries, all the other figures go until early May or late April. Plus, Italy being the first country to have a major outbreak, they peaked sooner and thus their deaths began falling off sooner, including data from that period is going to make Italy look better, not worse.