So... what happens when you die?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

There is no BALANCE! Everything is becoming something else, changing linearly, not oscillating from one extreme to another. The universe is the simplest example. It went BOOM and has been cooling and expanding ever since. It will eventually cool to the point that molecular motion stops and everything will be cold and dark forever. That's it. No fucking balance, no return to whateverthe fuck. The Earth is like that too. It went from a fiery hell hole to a much ocean world with living scum for three billion years before some how by some accident multi-cellular organisms appeared. That wasn't some orderly thing back and forth, it was linear. And it will continue. There is no cycle, no bouncing from one to the other. That's a fantasy.

---

Please do not presume to lecture to me about cosmology. Changing linearly, is it? Is it really?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Me? I'd called it boring and stagnating. Circular indeed, on that we agree. Everything spins.

---

No. It doesn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nessus

Please do not presume to lecture to me about cosmology. Changing linearly, is it? Is it really?

---

That wasn't meant for you. If you had to choose between cyclical or linear, which would YOU choose? It doesn't go round and round, it goes dead on into the dark, dead distance. Just like everything you observe in nature - watch it long enough and there's nothing cyclical.

Everything spins, it's a fact. throughout the universe, everything spins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Everything spins, it's a fact. throughout the universe, everything spins.

---

<sigh> until it stops. (yawning emoticon)

Ahh, and what has stopped spinning lately that continues to survive?<slap on back emoticon> wake up, this is finally geting good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Ahh, and what has stopped spinning lately that continues to survive?<slap on back emoticon> wake up, this is finally geting good.

---

Everything stops eventually. Everything changes into the next thing until the next thing is the heat death. Then nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Everything spins, it's a fact. throughout the universe, everything spins.

---

And that has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of cosmic justice. The universe isn't fair and it's an odd, but understandable, thing that we think it ought to be fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Vague? the concept of balance is prevalent in everything we experience. supply and demand; give and take; predator and prey, the list goes on.

---

You've just listed a bunch of opposing concepts. You have no explained what this 'law of balance' is, what it says, or even what you mean be 'balance'. So, yes. Vague.

Quote:

---

It's like yin-yang, not at all "made up out of thin air".

---

Yin and yang wasn't made up out of thin air? Interesting.

Quote:

---

If a system is not in balance it degrades, falls apart, and dies.

---

All systems fall apart, degrade and die. So what is this law of balance?

Quote:

---

Nature won't allow it to continue in an unstable state.

---

Define "unstable state".

Quote:

---

In fact, nature occassionally injects a new variable to balance the system, or modifies the system itself in order to restore it to a balanced state.

---

buh

Quote:

---

So, I don't think I've made anything up out of thin air. If there indeed is a god, and he created everything, it is through this law that he accomplished it.

---

If God is beholden to this "law", why is he not beholden to all the other laws as well? And if he his beholden to the laws of physics, how is he a "god"?

God can "pick and choose" which laws he/she wants to abide by, and tosses the rest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bitter Jeweler

God can "pick and choose" which laws he/she wants to abide by, and tosses the rest.

---

Like an abusive partner!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Everything stops eventually. Everything changes into the next thing until the next thing is the heat death. Then nothing.

---

I'll start here. Sigh. HEAT DEATH?
[QUOTE+"Steely Glint"]A) You've just listed a bunch of opposing concepts. You have no explained what this 'law of balance' is, what it says, or even what you mean be 'balance'. So, yes. Vague.
B)Yin and yang wasn't made up out of thin air? Interesting.
C)All systems fall apart, degrade and die. So what is this law of balance?
D)Define "unstable state".
E)buh
F) If God is beholden to this "law", why is he not beholden to all the other laws as well? And if he his beholden to the laws of physics, how is he a "god"?

[/QUOTE]
A) Apology for my assumption. When I said these things I thought you realized the law of 'Cause and effect'.
B)No it's an observed reality One way of visualising balance.
C) Yes they do. This thread asks what happens to it's enegy, it's mass, if anything at all.
D)One that is not balanced. One side of equation bigger=bad, nature no like. Try to fix.
E) it's called evolution, maybe you've heard of it?
F)Just because he knows the laws doesn't He made them,or can defy them. Define the term God however you choose. I think that if he exists at all it as only his greater knowledge of and ability to manipulte these very laws that make him 'appear' so mighty. We didn't create the laws,yet can manipulate them in fantastic ways.

Quote:

---

God can "pick and choose" which laws he/she wants to abide by, and tosses the rest.

---

BUH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

There is no BALANCE! Everything is becoming something else, changing linearly, not oscillating from one extreme to another. The universe is the simplest example. It went BOOM and has been cooling and expanding ever since. It will eventually cool to the point that molecular motion stops and everything will be cold and dark forever. That's it. No fucking balance, no return to whateverthe fuck. The Earth is like that too. It went from a fiery hell hole to a much ocean world with living scum for three billion years before some how by some accident multi-cellular organisms appeared. That wasn't some orderly thing back and forth, it was linear. And it will continue. There is no cycle, no bouncing from one to the other. That's a fantasy.

---

Yeah well, you're using an undefined system to reach that conclusion. :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

I'll start here. Sigh. HEAT DEATH?

---

Sorry, I thought you knew. Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death

Quote:

---

The heat death is a possible final thermodynamic state of the universe, in which it has "run down" to a state of no thermodynamic free energy to sustain motion or life. In physical terms, it has reached maximum entropy. The hypothesis of a universal heat death stems from the 1850s ideas of William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin who extrapolated the theory of heat views of mechanical energy loss in nature, as embodied in the first two laws of thermodynamics, to universal operation.

---

Assuming universal expansion continues to accelerate then eventaully this will occur. No cycles. No repeats. Just like everything around us right here on Earth but on a cosmic scale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Being

Yeah well, you're using an undefined system to reach that conclusion. :o

---

I'm using the observation of everything around me. Look at history. What repeats over and over? What balance is there to the cultural evolution of humanity? Look at life? Where are the dinosaurs, dude? Where's the heards of buffalo on the plains? What happened to frackin' Pangea? Why are the poles covered in frackin' ice when they used to be wet and warm? There is no steady state of balance between order and chaos, no balance between good and evil, no balance of nature between predators and prey, none of that's real. It's all a messy random jumble that our little brains are too short term to really understand and too desparate to find order in the cosmos to accept.

That said, this doesn't mean there's no Creator. Just not one that does the above. But if there is a creator, if the universe has a purpose, then you and I and all of human civilizaiton is an afterthought. We might be a side effect. God's not paying attention. Or if it is, its not interested in humans on a personal level.

What about God's plans for humans?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RazorBullet

What about God's plans for humans?

---

There either is no plan or there is no God (ie still no plan).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Assuming universal expansion continues to accelerate then eventaully this will occur. No cycles. No repeats. Just like everything around us right here on Earth but on a cosmic scale.

---

Well, unless the Big Rip gets us first :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Sorry, I thought you knew. Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death

Assuming universal expansion continues to accelerate then eventaully this will occur. No cycles. No repeats. Just like everything around us right here on Earth but on a cosmic scale.

---

Ok-a-a-a-y

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

I'm using the observation of everything around me. Look at history. What repeats over and over? What balance is there to the cultural evolution of humanity? Look at life? Where are the dinosaurs, dude? Where's the heards of buffalo on the plains? What happened to frackin' Pangea? Why are the poles covered in frackin' ice when they used to be wet and warm? There is no steady state of balance between order and chaos, no balance between good and evil, no balance of nature between predators and prey, none of that's real. It's all a messy random jumble that our little brains are too short term to really understand and too desparate to find order in the cosmos to accept.

That said, this doesn't mean there's no Creator. Just not one that does the above. But if there is a creator, if the universe has a purpose, then you and I and all of human civilizaiton is an afterthought. We might be a side effect. God's not paying attention. Or if it is, its not interested in humans on a personal level.

---

I tell you things change as a reaction to rebalance and react to this rebalancing in constant flux, and your argument against that is that things are constantly changing? I stand by WTF are you on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bitter Jeweler

God can "pick and choose" which laws he/she wants to abide by, and tosses the rest.

---

BUH

---

What? You didn't like that?

Lol'd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

There is no steady state of balance between order and chaos, no balance between good and evil, no balance of nature between predators and prey, none of that's real. It's all a messy random jumble that our little brains are too short term to really understand and too desparate to find order in the cosmos to accept.

---

Well, hidden in his ramblings of balance you can find a point. There is an uneven distribution of energy in the universe and everything we've experienced over the past 14 billion years is the result of that imbalance reaching equilibrium (of course once it does so life will no longer be possible but hey, not my problem). But you can't really tie that into abstract concepts like God, Satan or Good and Evil and I also wouldn't exactly call it cyclical seeing as how it's all slowly winding down like a pendulum.

Where do you guys get the 'winding down' crap. The universe is expanding at an accellerating rate. Get it? It's speeding up not slowing down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Where do you guys get the 'winding down' crap. The universe is expanding at an accellerating rate. Get it? It's speeding up not slowing down.

---

It's a natural consequence of the laws of thermodynamics. To perform any kind of work requires moving an amount energy from a source[1] to the environment[2], once all sources of power on the earth are exhausted[3] only solar energy will be left to use, once the sun has died life on earth will shortly follow, once all the suns have died all that will be left is the energy emitted from black holes, once all the black holes have evaporated there will only be the decay of basic subatomic particles like protons and neutrons and once they're all gone there will be no useable energy left in the universe. It will have "wound down" like a spring powered clock.

[1] like chemical energy in a battery.
[2] the results of all 'work', whether your making tungsten emit light or refigerating your food emit energy into the environment as waste heat, and the Earth radiates its excess heat into space.
[3]i.e we've used up all the fossil fuels, all the radioactives and the earths core has cooled an solidifed preventing any gethoermal activity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rumrunner

Where do you guys get the 'winding down' crap. The universe is expanding at an accellerating rate. Get it? It's speeding up not slowing down.

---

Energy & mass density is decreasing as a result of the universe's acceleration. Entropy also continues to increase, and in time it will tear down all organized structures. Assuming the accelerating universal expansion doesn't destroy everything in a Big Rip first, eventually the universe will be only a cold, dark nothingness, with no structures of any interest. So winding down fits. These times are hot, bright, and exciting compared to what the future holds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wraith

Energy & mass density is decreasing as a result of the universe's acceleration. Entropy also continues to increase, and in time it will tear down all organized structures. Assuming the accelerating universal expansion doesn't destroy everything in a Big Rip first, eventually the universe will be only a cold, dark nothingness, with no structures of any interest. So winding down fits. These times are hot, bright, and exciting compared to what the future holds.

---

Again I must remind you that this conclusion is based on an undefined system.

At some point in the future technology will be developed to recreate people using their remains. Unfortunately we will be used as slave labor in the mines of Terolius IV. I'd recommend cremation to avoid this fate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angel_Mapper

At some point in the future technology will be developed to recreate people using their remains. Unfortunately we will be used as slave labor in the mines of Terolius IV. I'd recommend cremation to avoid this fate.

---

Your thetan will just end up in another body.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angel_Mapper

I'd recommend cremation to avoid this fate.

---

Until they develop time windows and read off your DNA and the thoughts you had before you died to recreate you.

Also: http://ficly.com/stories/1456

They will aim a sensor network around a distant black hole, scanning you from thousands of years in the future like an echo off a cliff face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angel_Mapper

At some point in the future technology will be developed to recreate people using their remains. Unfortunately we will be used as slave labor in the mines of Terolius IV. I'd recommend cremation to avoid this fate.

---

The essential Saltes of Animals may be so prepared and preserved, that an ingenious Man may have the whole Ark of Noah in his own Studie, and raise the fine Shape of an Animal out of its Ashes at his Pleasure; and by the lyke Method from the essential Saltes of humane Dust, a Philosopher may, without any criminal Necromancy, call up the Shape of any dead Ancestour from the Dust whereinto his Bodie has been incinerated.