So... what happens when you die?

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Originally Posted by Nessus

The essential Saltes of Animals may be so prepared and preserved, that an ingenious Man may have the whole Ark of Noah in his own Studie, and raise the fine Shape of an Animal out of its Ashes at his Pleasure; and by the lyke Method from the essential Saltes of humane Dust, a Philosopher may, without any criminal Necromancy, call up the Shape of any dead Ancestour from the Dust whereinto his Bodie has been incinerated.

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Source?

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Originally Posted by Being

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Borellus.

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Originally Posted by Being

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Have you really not done this before? I had to summon Aeneas to help me with my Roman civilization class. Apparently, Virgil got it all wrong.

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Originally Posted by Nessus

Borellus.

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Thank you. Have you found The Dusty Library ?

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Originally Posted by Angel_Mapper

At some point in the future technology will be developed to recreate people using their remains. Unfortunately we will be used as slave labor in the mines of Terolius IV. I'd recommend cremation to avoid this fate.

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I'm slated for cremation, but not becasue of this. If they can take a decomposed corpse and re-make the human it once was, then they can probably just make humans. Why bother with the corpse?

Also: there is no good and evil balancing its way in a cosmic ballet Across the Universe. Fine movie, btw. There is no order and disorder tiptoeing through the cosmic two lips. There's just the inevitable progression toward disorder. Nature's not in balance. It never was. If your god depends on that, forget it. Find another god.

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Originally Posted by ImAnOgre

What do you guys think? I most of you don't believe in 'Heaven' as many Christians do, so what happens?

Do you believe in reincarnation? Do you believe we just disappear? Do you get on the comet as it's passing? Do the aliends come and get you?

I thought about posting a poll, but I think there's way too many choices for a simple poll.

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If i'm completely honest, i'd like to believe in reincarnation. I'm actually quite petrified of dying and not knowing whats going to happen when the lights are turned off. I don't like the uncertainty. As pathetic as it sounds, i sometimes (not very frequent) have panic attacks in bed when i think about it ... :sour:

It was a subject i could think and discuss without a care in the world but that soon changed.

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Originally Posted by Lor

If i'm completely honest, i'd like to believe in reincarnation. I'm actually quite petrified of dying and not knowing whats going to happen when the lights are turned off. I don't like the uncertainty. As pathetic as it sounds, i sometimes (not very frequent) have panic attacks in bed when i think about it ... :sour:

It was a subject i could think and discuss without a care in the world but that soon changed.

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Yes, reincarnation would be the best. Life would be just like a video game. You can try it over and over until you get really good.

"Game Over: Please insert coins to continue"

:up:

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Originally Posted by Lor

"Game Over: Please insert coins to continue"

:up:

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Only problem is you don't remember the last game while you're playing the next. How do you refine your strategy?

Button bash.


Alt comedy answer - Tekken claw

Buy a better memory card?

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

Button bash.


Alt comedy answer - Tekken claw

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Woosh.

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Originally Posted by Lor

Buy a better memory card?

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<sigh> You can't.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Woosh.

<sigh> You can't.

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Tell that to Alber ... :o

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Originally Posted by Lor

Tell that to Alber ... :o

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I have. Many times. How do you think that went? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

I have. Many times. How do you think that went? :rolleyes:

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It probably resulted in you pounding your head (or wanting to) against a brick wall.

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Originally Posted by Being

Thank you. Have you found The Dusty Library ?

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There are several places that host Lovecraft's work but their legal status around the globe is...Iffy. Plus I got the Lovecraft collection some time ago

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

A) Apology for my assumption. When I said these things I thought you realized the law of 'Cause and effect'.

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Why on earth would you say "law of balance" when you actually meant "cause and effect?" How does causality mean that god can't go and ruin Satan's shit?

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No it's an observed reality One way of visualising balance.

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No, it fucking isn't. It's just some woo-woo eastern metaphysics.

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Yes they do. This thread asks what happens to it's enegy, it's mass, if anything at all.

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HOLLYWOOD SCIENTIST: His energy has to go somewhere!!!!

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D)One that is not balanced. One side of equation bigger=bad, nature no like. Try to fix.

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I didn't know nature was capable of having opinions about which side of the equation it likes better, really.

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E) it's called evolution, maybe you've heard of it?

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In what way does nature use evolution to "balance" non-biological systems, such as the sun?

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Why on earth would you say "law of balance" when you actually meant "cause and effect?" How does causality mean that god can't go and ruin Satan's shit?



No, it fucking isn't. It's just some woo-woo eastern metaphysics.



HOLLYWOOD SCIENTIST: His energy has to go somewhere!!!!



I didn't know nature was capable of having opinions about which side of the equation it likes better, really.



In what way does nature use evolution to "balance" non-biological systems, such as the sun?

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cause and effect is a balancing force. equal and opposite.

woo-woo?
Your energy can't remain in your body after it's gone, now can it? Maybe it just dissapates into the ether, or oblivion, or whatever.
No one ever told things like: nature abhors a vacuum? It's like say there's an abundance of food for the deer in a particular forest. The deer poulation rises out of control, eating all vegetation available. In one of natures cruel ironies wolves and starvation bring the deer population down to sustainable levels. It's not by preferrence as you say, but rather by neccesity.
Stellar objects seem to go through life cycles, the actual mechanics of which I don't understand much. But there are phenomenon which appear relatively new to the universe, perhaps as part of some 'evolutionary' process.

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

cause and effect is a balancing force. equal and opposite.

woo-woo?
Your energy can't remain in your body after it's gone, now can it? Maybe it just dissapates into the ether, or oblivion, or whatever.
No one ever told things like: nature abhors a vacuum? It's like say there's an abundance of food for the deer in a particular forest. The deer poulation rises out of control, eating all vegetation available. In one of natures cruel ironies wolves and starvation bring the deer population down to sustainable levels. It's not by preferrence as you say, but rather by neccesity.
Stellar objects seem to go through life cycles, the actual mechanics of which I don't understand much. But there are phenomenon which appear relatively new to the universe, perhaps as part of some 'evolutionary' process.

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:rolleyes:

don't roll your eyes at me young lady. Nobody knows with certainty what happens, or how, or even why. I'm just giving possible avenues of thought.
Even though it can be said that there is no order in the universe, thats patently absurd. Without order study in any area would be pointless as there be no baseline for comparison. Just because there is also much (seeming)disorder only proves the possibility of me being correct. Balance between two opposing forces.

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

don't roll your eyes at me young lady. Nobody knows with certainty what happens, or how, or even why. I'm just giving possible avenues of thought.
Even though it can be said that there is no order in the universe, thats patently absurd. Without order study in any area would be pointless as there be no baseline for comparison. Just because there is also much (seeming)disorder only proves the possibility of me being correct. Balance between two opposing forces.

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Most of your posts here that we've laughed at have consisted of using words that don't really mean what you seem to think they mean.

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Originally Posted by Lor

It probably resulted in you pounding your head (or wanting to) against a brick wall.

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Yeah, so much so they made it into an emoticon.

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cause and effect is a balancing force. equal and opposite.

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what the fuck

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Your energy can't remain in your body after it's gone, now can it? Maybe it just dissapates into the ether, or oblivion, or whatever.

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Yeah man. INTO THE ETHER.

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No one ever told things like: nature abhors a vacuum?

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You may notice that "nature abhors a vacuum" is a completely difference sentence to "nature seeks balance" or whatever bullshit you're trying to sell here.

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It's like say there's an abundance of food for the deer in a particular forest. The deer poulation rises out of control, eating all vegetation available. In one of natures cruel ironies wolves and starvation bring the deer population down to sustainable levels. It's not by preferrence as you say, but rather by neccesity.

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Biological systems work that way because of a the fact of finite resources and the laws of thermodynamics, not because of so mystic tendency of all the universe to seek some kind of mystical state of "balance".

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Stellar objects seem to go through life cycles, the actual mechanics of which I don't understand much. But there are phenomenon which appear relatively new to the universe, perhaps as part of some 'evolutionary' process.

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I guess we can add the mechanics of evolution to the massive list of topics about which you are entirely ignorant. (Think "competition" and "sexual selection" and how these concepts might apply to stars. Hint: they don't).

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I don't understand much

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No fooling.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

what the fuck



Yeah man. INTO THE ETHER.



You may notice that "nature abhors a vacuum" is a completely difference sentence to "nature seeks balance" or whatever bullshit you're trying to sell here.



Biological systems work that way because of a the fact of finite resources and the laws of thermodynamics, not because of so mystic tendency of all the universe to seek some kind of mystical state of "balance".



I guess we can add the mechanics of evolution to the massive list of topics about which you are entirely ignorant. (Think "competition" and "sexual selection" and how these concepts might apply to stars. Hint: they don't).



No fooling.

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<yawn> You're wasting your time.

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

cause and effect is a balancing force. equal and opposite.

woo-woo?
Your energy can't remain in your body after it's gone, now can it? Maybe it just dissapates into the ether, or oblivion, or whatever.
No one ever told things like: nature abhors a vacuum? It's like say there's an abundance of food for the deer in a particular forest. The deer poulation rises out of control, eating all vegetation available. In one of natures cruel ironies wolves and starvation bring the deer population down to sustainable levels. It's not by preferrence as you say, but rather by neccesity.
Stellar objects seem to go through life cycles, the actual mechanics of which I don't understand much. But there are phenomenon which appear relatively new to the universe, perhaps as part of some 'evolutionary' process.

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Except when the deer population grows to fast, they go extinct. Or when it grows too slow. It's a fairly one way track., plenty of species go extinct.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

Except when the deer population grows to fast, they go extinct. Or when it grows too slow. It's a fairly one way track., plenty of species go extinct.

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Most, actually. I'm sure we will, sooner than later too. :o

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You may notice that "nature abhors a vacuum" is a completely difference sentence to "nature seeks balance" or whatever bullshit you're trying to sell here

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Why does nature abhor a vacuum,hmm? maybe because it's an imbalanced state in relation the rest of nature. How does nature deal with a vacuum? perhaps by filling until it is equal in proportion to the rest of nature, no more no less. imagine a gas cylinder filled to capacity. When the valve is opened, the gas escapes. Why? Because the surrounding atmosphere is analogous to vacuum in relation to the pressurized cylinder. Bonus question: How much of the gas escapes without outside influence (in other words,naturally)? The amount required to equalize the pressure inside to the pressure outside the cylinder (until the pressure is balanced).

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Biological systems work that way because of a the fact of finite resources and the laws of thermodynamics, not because of so mystic tendency of all the universe to seek some kind of mystical state of "balance".

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I never claimed there was anything 'mystical' about it. But the less intelligent often fear things they don't know as 'myst'erious and magical. It's just natural science kids.

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I guess we can add the mechanics of evolution to the massive list of topics about which you are entirely ignorant. (Think "competition" and "sexual selection" and how these concepts might apply to stars. Hint: they don't).

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Stars and galaxies actually do in some ways compete. Especially galaxies, they'll leach gasses from each other to power themselves. Not saying galaxies are sentient or even conscious. Just anthropomorphizing them for sake of explaination. Some pulsars other stellar objects also exhibit these behaviors.
Oh, and bacteria (and other single-celled organisms) "evolve" without any sexuallity whatsoever so I'll ignore that.

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

I never claimed there was anything 'mystical' about it. But the less intelligent often fear things they don't know as 'myst'erious and magical. It's just natural science kids.

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Except in the original quote that started this fiasco:

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No God can't just defeat Satan. He is bound by the law of balance in all things. That is why he doesn't just appear to the world and say "Blah-blah-blah and all is well". That would allow Satan the same access to our world. Thus they are both forced to use emissaries, the kind of dumbasses who think they understand it all. But don't listen to me, I only have an idea.

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you're trying to take the basic laws of energy transfer renaming it balance and then trying to apply it to beings that, by their definition, are supposed to be able to transcend beyond such laws, which makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum

you're trying to take the basic laws of energy transfer renaming it balance and then trying to apply it to beings that, by their definition, are supposed to be able to transcend beyond such laws, which makes no sense.

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My very point was that however we've come to define what god is,he is not able to transcend the laws of nature. Whether or not he/she exists, whether or not he/she created anything including the laws of nature, god has to follow them. That may be how I should have worded it in the beginning. As to the laws of enegy transfer, I was speaking generically about specific points of a hypothetical concept. No wonder I sounded crazy. "Specific points of a hypothetical concept"?

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

My very point was that however we've come to define what god is,he is not able to transcend the laws of nature.

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I take it this is just a personal opinion? 'cause pretty much every other follower of abrahamic religion would disagree with you there.

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Whether or not he/she exists, whether or not he/she created anything including the laws of nature, god has to follow them.

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And what evidence, in scripture or otherwise, do you have do back up that claim? I'm no biblical expert but the bible certainly seems to showgod disobeying the laws of nature, as well as creating the universe and those laws to begin with so again I'm not sure how you can claim that he might not have.

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That may be how I should have worded it in the beginning. As to the laws of enegy transfer, I was speaking generically about specific points of a hypothetical concept. No wonder I sounded crazy. "Specific points of a hypothetical concept"?

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Yeah, see the rest of us were talking specifics not generics as we happen to know something about those laws on energy transfer and what they imply about the universe.

Yeah, I know that you so-called brainiacs constantly change what the facts mean when a new variable pops up. Come on you guys actually think you know the mass of the universe, I nearly shit myself when I heard an astro-physics proffessor say "The energy within the universe is too great for the known mass of the universe". He then went on to explain about dark matter, and then all of a sudden there was too little energy for the mass, which led to the discovery of dark energy. Then, and only then, was the equation balanced. Oh, sorry, balanced does mean equal to the smart people, doesn't it? Get some sun,son.

edit: btw, speaking specifically on an esoteric philosophical topic such as "what happens when you die?" is rather arrogant.

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

Yeah, I know that you so-called brainiacs constantly change what the facts mean when a new variable pops up.

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Well of course, when you get new data you have to account for it. I'm not sure how you can see that as a bad thing. We don't have the luxury of ignoring reality and sticking to dogma like the theologists.

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Come on you guys actually think you know the mass of the universe

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We have a reasonable approximation sure. It's not hard to make one if you make a few reasonable assumptions[1], and if you decide that you shouldn't be assuming things about the universe then you have to use more difficult but also more rigorous methods.

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I nearly shit myself when I heard an astro-physics proffessor say "The energy within the universe is too great for the known mass of the universe". He then went on to explain about dark matter, and then all of a sudden there was too little energy for the mass, which led to the discovery of dark energy. Then, and only then, was the equation balanced.

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was it this guy?



'cause that was an awesome lecture and I thought it was a fairly understandable look at how science and scientists work, and the difference between theorists (who like their equations coming out as simple solutions) and experimentalists (who have to determine whether or not they actually do come out as simple solutions)

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Oh, sorry, balanced does mean equal to the smart people, doesn't it? Get some sun,son.

edit: btw, speaking specifically on an esoteric philosophical topic such as "what happens when you die?" is rather arrogant.

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If you're not a religious person you can only go by the evidence, which suggests there is no afterlife nor any dieties to create one.



[1]For example, assuming that the universe is roughly the same in all directions, with an even distribution of galaxies and quasars and the like then all you have to do is observe a small patch of sky, estimate the mass in that area, then extrapolate it to the rest of the observable universe and voila... an estimation of the observable universe's mass. Probably not a very good estimate but it might not be off by much.

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

Why does nature abhor a vacuum,hmm? maybe because it's an imbalanced state in relation the rest of nature.

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How is a vacuum "unbalanced"? It's fucking empty. If there really were a law of balance there'd be nothing but vacuum with a sparse but even distribution of matter and energy.

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How does nature deal with a vacuum? perhaps by filling until it is equal in proportion to the rest of nature

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Most of nature is vacuum. All the matter and energy seems to have clumped together into large pieces, spread unevenly, over unfathomably vast tracts of fuck all.

This should tell you something important.

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no more no less. imagine a gas cylinder filled to capacity. When the valve is opened, the gas escapes. Why? Because the surrounding atmosphere is analogous to vacuum in relation to the pressurized cylinder. Bonus question: How much of the gas escapes without outside influence (in other words,naturally)? The amount required to equalize the pressure inside to the pressure outside the cylinder (until the pressure is balanced).

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Since it happens in this one specific example, it must be true of the whole of nature! This is why the atmosphere of the Earth has been sucked into space. Because the movement of gases in these instances is nothing to do with the physics of the various pressures involved but because nature is seeking balance.

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Stars and galaxies actually do in some ways compete. Especially galaxies, they'll leach gasses from each other to power themselves. Not saying galaxies are sentient or even conscious. Just anthropomorphizing them for sake of explaination. Some pulsars other stellar objects also exhibit these behaviors.
Oh, and bacteria (and other single-celled organisms) "evolve" without any sexuallity whatsoever so I'll ignore that.

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No, but they key thing is that they reproduce, you stupid tit. That means mutation, and the development of traits which are more advantageous/disadvantageous for a given environment. Stellar bodies do not do this. A galaxy that is good at leaching gases or some such shit does not have baby galaxies, then pass its gas leaching genes onto its offspring which creates a new successful species of galaxy.

Oh, and by the way, how is any of this supposed to mean that God can't fuck up Satan? If they are beings bound by the laws of nature, as we are, then they should be able to kick each other in the teeth just as much as two humans can.

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Originally Posted by Tempus Vernum

Probably not a very good estimate but it might not be off by much.

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What? :bulb:

Doesn't the phrase "nature abhors a vacuum" refer, not to the way matter redistributes itself in response to a pressure differential, but to how a truly empty vacuum is actually a boiling froth of virtual particles popping in and out of existence down at the sub-subatomic level?

Neither, it was first coined by Aristotle. He was simply talking about how empty space will always be filled with liquid or gas. He didn't know about pressure differentials, virtual particles or anything like that.

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Originally Posted by Cedar Point

What? :bulb:

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Is there a problem with that? Your estimate will only be as good as your measurements and how right or wrong your underlying assumptions of the structure of the universe are.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Neither, it was first coined by Aristotle. He was simply talking about how empty space will always be filled with liquid or gas. He didn't know about pressure differentials, virtual particles or anything like that.

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Oh right, silly me :bulb:

I was raised thinking there was something else, and I have tried hard to fit that square peg into a round hole. I can't do that while living an evidence-based interpretation of the world. I've tried hard to reconcile the two, and it's just not possible. There is NO evidence for any kind of existence after death. As BJ says, the power plant sputters, dies, and the brain grinds to a halt like the Terminator viewscreen in the original movie. And unless you get an alternative power source like Arnie did within a couple of minutes, that decomposition will have already progressed far enough for it to be curtains.

Oblivion. Nothing. You no longer exist. Anything else is just blind faith.

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Originally Posted by GGT

But let's try this angle.

ACC is dead, but some keep posting in it, for whatever reason they won't let it go. Some may want to play a sarcasm or dry humor game as a way to deal with their loss or grief. Or is it a subconscious game against a power they can't control?

Timmy wants to keep the dying thing alive, with strings attached. He is earnest, even in his wayward hopefulness. He figures that siding with the admins might turn his approach from helplessness into empowerment.

Whether you admit it or not, transitions are forms of death (and birth). Deaths have grievance patterns and stages. It's not just Change as a phenomenon, but the Emotions attached.

Why is this so hard to see? The reason (in analogy) that members had such a hard time with the Sudden Death of ACC was how it was handled. We were not edged or eased into the death, or given any explanation, or time to absorb it, but instead we were expected to accept its fast and incoherent demise. Boom, cremation, and soldering embers.

At least we have this place to hold hands and move ahead. In real life, and real death, it's not so easy.

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Nice! Fun analogy.

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Originally Posted by littlelolligagged

I have no trouble with saying it public, and if Dread had a problem with it all he had to do was say stop, and I would have instantly. Still would, even. But since he has not, and I have not crossed any lines at all, what the hell is the problem? Can I assume then that you also sent OG and Rumrunner PMs asking them what they were thinking?

I'm terribly sorry you can't see the humor in what the CC has become. I was actually growing rather bored with playing and about to give up, but there is no way in hell I'm going to give you the satisfaction of thinking you convinced me with your self-righteous nonsense.

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Actually, I'm sad that any of the real members bother in returning. In doing so, you obscure the real effect of Phuxor's actions, and allow him the sop that he didn't completely kill CC. Y'all should cut the cord, let CC become the wasteland that is its destiny, and let Phuxor and the Atari donkeys reap what they sowed. And ffs don't HELP them in any way. Turn about is fair play.

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Originally Posted by rumrunner

Yeah, I know that you so-called brainiacs constantly change what the facts mean when a new variable pops up. Come on you guys actually think you know the mass of the universe, I nearly shit myself when I heard an astro-physics proffessor say "The energy within the universe is too great for the known mass of the universe". He then went on to explain about dark matter, and then all of a sudden there was too little energy for the mass, which led to the discovery of dark energy. Then, and only then, was the equation balanced. Oh, sorry, balanced does mean equal to the smart people, doesn't it? Get some sun,son.

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Thank you for illustrating the robustness of the scientific method as a means of understanding our "context." You see, a religious person sees something they don't understand, a contradiction, and they wave a magic wand called faith and claim that it is "God." A scientist sees a contradiction and goes to work his butt off to figure out an explanation for said contradiction and then to test his model. Consequently, the picture painted by science becomes richer and rocher over time: an ever-closer approximation of the truth. Picture, if you will, a lemma.

The religious guy? He stays where he was for thousands of years, because why explain anything if you've already got the explanation (God)?

Funny thing is that you mock scientists in this way, and probably mock ancient Greeks for thinking that Zeus threw thunderbolts. But the fact is that YOU are the ancient Greeks, if I read you aright. Do I?

Good thing there are scientists around, eh? The two greatest intellectual construct-type inventions (as opposed to concrete inventions, like the wheel or the polio vaccine) of all time were commerce and science. Without those, humans would still be in caves.