Funny, I didn't have any Candy Crush saga installed with my Windows 10. The worst thing was the stupid MSN Sports that I promptly removed.
Printable View
Funny, I didn't have any Candy Crush saga installed with my Windows 10. The worst thing was the stupid MSN Sports that I promptly removed.
I esp. love this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...s-explained/2/
(re. enterprise users)Quote:
Microsoft only announced this in June, but it is a great initiative: even if you don’t qualify for a free upgrade to Windows 10 you can still get one on the condition that you agree to become a ‘Windows Insider’.
Read more – Microsoft Confirms Windows 10 Updates Cannot Be Stopped
What this means is you get Windows 10 free, but you also have to be a guinea pig and receive all the Windows Update patches and upgrades while they are still in beta. Keep doing that and Windows 10 is free for you like everyone else, but stop accepting the beta upgrades and your copy of Windows 10 will be invalidated.
IIRC during the German invasion of the Netherlands they used passwords that non-native Dutch could not pronounce correctly :p (e.g. Scheveningen)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
I have a 'professional' Windows license, and that will let me upgrade to Windows 10 Pro. So the professional ones seem to be also updated for free.Quote:
You guys realise that the 'free Windows 10' thing we're talking about isn't the same as the professionally used versions of Windows that businesses actually pay for ?
Im thinking he is referring to Windows 10 Enterprise, or Enterprise LTSB
My Windows 7 Ultimate upgraded to Windows 8 Pro, to Windows 8 Pro with Media Center, to Windows 8.1 pro with Media Center, to Windows 10 Pro.
Not bad for a grand total of $35
I think its called shibboleth. The US did it to the Japanese with lollapalooza cause they would turn the Ls into Rs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flixy
Dessert was a common word for the dutch cause the Germans couldn't pronounce it.
Its in inglourious basterds too, when they count using their fingers.
Not bad indeed, though mine was for free :p A friend had received a number of licenses from Microsoft for a project, but they had a few left over in the end, and he gave me one. And my other PC came with windows Vista, and a 'free' upgrade to windows 7, that did require me paying €20 for some reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
It's a blatant lie. The actual beta testers are the Windows Insider users. And those users are opt in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimless
So, you're telling me that you have no way to react to zero-day exploits because your machines are openly connected to the general net and you need several months to update even the tiniest of issues?Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
No firewalls, no VLAN, no nothing, you put that thing in the DMZ and bam! Seriously?
Nor did mine. It had the little tiles for Candy Crush and Twitter, but those are simple shortcuts to their pages in the Windows 10 Store that would then prompt me to install them. I quickly removed all of the tiles for Minecraft and other stuff I don't use. I'm glad to have access to NBCSN Live Extra though. I feel that it scales better to full screen than watching the stream in-browser.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
Haha, I was confused for a moment when I accidentally opened CCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
No, never said thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
Never said that either.Quote:
No firewalls, no VLAN, no nothing, you put that thing in the DMZ and bam! Seriously?
Then we're talking about different things. I'm talking about security related machines - i.e. firewalls and publicly accessible servers.
Unless you're telling me that your company also has enough red tape for those so that an update takes weeks?
Next up, Rand discovers that solitaire is freemium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
And I am talking about safety related machines, cars, robots, anything that can crush a human into bits within seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
We are not in the firewall business, we use them but don't make them.Quote:
Unless you're telling me that your company also has enough red tape for those so that an update takes weeks?
Yes. And once again, if those are actually accessible by anyone, then you're doing it wrong. That, my dear, is really not rocket science.Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
They aren't, neither is Rands PC.
I just right-clicked on the tile and there was a button that said uninstall. I assume same as yours. As I said I'm mainly bemused by the fact they're installing adware for crap like that and not offended by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echovirus
Khen you keep barking about day zero but have completely and 100% ignored the fact that Microsoft is not flawless. That a number of times the patch is what breaks things that are working not the exploit. You may trust MS impeccably, others may not - just because you think their patches are perfect and irreplaceable doesn't make you a genius. Except maybe under Apple's definition, just keep following the company line of MS/Apple.
Big companies never make mistakes do they, they're completely perfect. Meanwhile in the real world ...
Windows has come bundled with games as far back as I can remember. Solitaire from 3.1, the maze game in 95, pinball, minesweeper... adware isn't even the right term here. Adware is something on your machine that produces ads. A shortcut to the app store is not that. I would barely even call that bloatware. A free OS upgrade with an expected lifespan of a decade has preinstalled pathways of revenue based on well established and beloved programs. THE HORROR.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
As for the updates, you're the only one making this a black or white case of updates bad, waiting good. Its been pointed out that neither method is perfect, but staying up to date against exploits is far smarter than not trusting Microsoft to know their operating system. I'm willing to bet you have more than one auto-updating program on your computer and they all run the risk of bricking your OS, but for some reason you've got a crazy hardon for hating just Microsoft's updates.
If information from your computer can be used to empty your bank account, then you deserve to have that happen, whether you're a religious fanatic about security updates or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
Edge would be a pretty nice browser if we could add in ad-block and a couple of other extensions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro
It can't be very good from a security standpoint to not read things.Quote:
even if you don’t qualify for a free upgrade to Windows 10 you can still get one on the condition that you agree to become a ‘Windows Insider’.
Read more – Microsoft Confirms Windows 10 Updates Cannot Be Stopped
What this means is you get Windows 10 free, but you also have to be a guinea pig and receive all the Windows Update patches and upgrades while they are still in beta.
I think I read somewhere that extensions are coming to Edge in a few months. I'll see if I can track that down.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelolligagged
Just don't tell him about potential security flaws in automatic update mechanisms, or he will lose his faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
Did solitaire, minesweeper etc constantly prompt players to pay money towards their freemium crap? Or were they simply a basic game that got included and that was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Categorically untrue! I've said that MS have long shipped Windows with automatic updates being the default setting and I've said all along that it should be the default setting. How does me saying the default should be automatically update be a black and white saying waiting is good?Quote:
As for the updates, you're the only one making this a black or white case of updates bad, waiting good.
What I object to is a complete lack of choice. That is totally black and white. Khen and MS think this is black and white, always updating every single update MS can think of immediately without testing is great, ever waiting is awful. I think this is a grey area and people should be able to choose what works best for them. That they should be able to change the default settings at their own risk at their own choice. I would be OK with it not even being a setting people are prompted to chose on but an under the hood setting advanced users can locate.
Microsoft and Khen think that Microsoft are infallible and know best for everyone.
I've said all along that neither method is perfect. I've said the default should be to trust MS. But if you agree neither option is perfect then why not let people choose? Why do you think we should arrogantly make that choice for everyone on a home licence with no exceptions?Quote:
Its been pointed out that neither method is perfect, but staying up to date against exploits is far smarter than not trusting Microsoft to know their operating system.
TL;DR
Khen: Herp, derp people can't be trusted. Do this for everyone, MS never make mistakes.
Me: Make this the default yes but its more complicated than that. Let people make their own choice.
OG: You want to let people choose? OMG you're such a black and white extremist.
Neither minecraft or candy crush do this. Its amusing that you think people can make educated and technical decisions regarding the security on their entire system, but not trust them with a video game that has a pay to win mechanism built it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
It's not about trust, it's about perceived annoyance :o
There's an awful lot of nonsense being talked in this thread. I don't even know what the fuck is going on.
1) If you know enough about your system to find the and use the option disable automatic updates you should probably be trusted to make that decision, or at least enough to accept the consequences upon yourself if you choose poorly. The picture some of you seem to have of a little old lady who thinks her DVD drive is a cupholder turning off automatic updates is faintly comical.
2) Re: security patches - there is a clear distinction between the urgency of a security update which is patching a vulnerability which is being exploited by malware in the wild right at that very instant and a security patch patching some hypothetical hole. Treating them both as equally urgent is stupid.
3) Not all updates are equally urgent for each system, it depends what the update is for and what the system is doing - if you're running apache on your linuxbox to do localhost web development and you have openssl hanging around from that one time you were dicking around with an e-commerce platform then you probably don't need to panic about getting the heartbleed vulnerability patched.
4) If you're saying things like "if you do/don't do [x] you will never be hacked/will always be hacked/deserve to be hacked" then you kinda sorta need to shut the fuck up as this is a clear sign you're operating on some kind of cargo cult based understanding of computer security.
5) "I don't want to accept this update because it breaks my system!" well, unless the update is breaks for *everyone* and you happen to read about it first, you don't actually know it's going to break the system until you've downloaded it and then identifying which update is causing the problem and then rolling back is a pain in the arse. Meanwhile, Microsoft usually withdraws bad updates itself in fairly short order. Microsoft's habit of of naming updates KB2134234534534534553453464665 is also not helpful for allowing home users an informed choice about what to install and not install. In reality, I don't think the image of a home user carefully looking through the updates to see if KB3435354395643968965456446645654456546456 (you have to check each one online because the updater provides little information about what is actually being changed) might just have an incompatibility with their personal configuration is any more likely than the little old lady turning off security updates. Obviously network admin teams *will* do this, but those networks should be running a more advanced version of Windows than Home edition.
6) I don't think safety critical systems are going to be running on Windows 10 Home Edition.
7) Actually, I don't think safety critical systems should be running on Windows at all.
8) Actually, running a safety critical system on Windows is a direct violation of the Windows EULA:
Quote:
“The Microsoft software was designed for systems that do not require fail-safe performance. You may not use the Microsoft software in any device or system in which a malfunction of the software would result in foreseeable risk of injury or death to any person.”
The problem is their support circle doing it. A son or neighbor turning off that thing thats annoying her and thus them (although the directions for disabling UAC spread like wildfire across the board), or other software having the ability to turn it, or OEMs having the ability to turn it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Are you hard of thinking? I said I'm bemused by this, not outraged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
you said you were bemused by the adware that doesn't exist, described the game in a way it doesn't operate, and used outraged right now when I never did :noob:
We actually don't use an OS at all. The safety critical software runs bare metal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
If people are disabling software updates because they're annoying, the solution is to stop them being so damn annoying, not prevent people turning off updates. I don't know what it's like in 10 or 8, but in 7 and below the update manager is seriously obnoxious. There is absolutely no need to pester the user to reboot as aggressively as it does, and they seriously need to look at how long it takes to install updates when you do reboot it, though I understand Window's shitty architecture may prevent too much being done about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
It goes without saying that third party software should not be able to disable updates or, indeed, change any other system settings.
I also believe that OEMs who feel the need to preload their computers with various "updaters", "launchers" and "managers" or any other software which duplicates entirely trivial functions of the OS such as downloading things or running programs in a desperate attempt to brandify ever aspect of the users experience need to be subject to prolonged and public punishment beatings and then made to think about what they've done, though I recognize that is probably a bit outside of even Microsoft's power
I really don't know why Microsoft doesn't manage to run updates while you are working and just boot in to the new version on the next restart. Every Linux I know can do that. Unless it's a distro upgrade I can always work during updates.
Upgrade kept failing but a tool linked from theverge.com finally sorted it out, took forever to upgrade but process better than even windows 8, but then I of course ran into problems with the geforce drivers, tried manual update which didn't work, couldn't remove and reinstall, repeated restarts didn't work and then suddenly it did. Now I've run into an irritating problem where the taskbar will no longer autohide after the start menu has been opened, only "good" workaround so far seems to be to restart the explorer process which sucks a little. Visually a little more appealing and I like the new take on the start menu more than 8.1's flawed attempt to fix it.
Strangely enough, that's just the way it works... updates get installed while you're working and are applied when you reboot with the option "Update and reboot". If you merely reboot, then you're forced to reboot after two days.Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker
I get the feeling that some of you don't really know what they're talking about.
Well, it is a little annoying that you have (at least in win7) 15 minutes to click postpone or it will reboot automatically, no matter what you have open.
Yes, and Win3.11 was even more annoying. I don't see what that has to do with Windows 10.
I've had the machine reboot itself in the middle of playing a game on 7, because the 'reboot now, bitch' box popped up in the background.
/looks at the topic title
Weird, I could have sworn that we were talking about two major versions above Windows 7.
I had this happen during the update to 8.1 with very unfortunate timing. Couldn't stop it by shutting down the service either. It's possible that Win 10 has magically become much more well-behaved but it should be obvious from context that EJ was referring to his windows experience as a whole which I expect has mostly been win OS:es before Win 10. From Khen's first snarky response it is absolutely clear that he, too, was including previous versions of Windows and has now sneakily decided to only talk about Windows 10 again. That's some Lewkowskian shit but I guess it's good for the drama-level of this thread :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Flixy