:picard:...:jihad:...:hitting-self:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
:picard:...:jihad:...:hitting-self:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Not that unusual. The Chinese side of the border isn't a particularly safe place to be, NK soldiers have a tendency to wander over it and loot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
It is unusual that China's complaining about it, though. This is not a good time for NK to be pushing their luck with China.
Rez for new stuff.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37710977...s-asiapacific/
Could be posturing as usual from the North, but if China votes against them then that could change.Quote:
UNITED NATIONS - North Korea's U.N. envoy said on Tuesday that any U.N. Security Council action over the sinking of a South Korean naval ship that was hostile to Pyongyang would have a military "follow-up."
Seoul, which has accused North Korea of torpedoing the corvette Cheonan on March 26, killing 46 sailors, brought the dispute to the Security Council this month, asking the 15-nation body to take action to deter "further provocation."
"If the Security Council release any documents against us condemning or questioning us in any document then myself as diplomat I can do nothing, but the follow-up measures will be carried out by our military forces," North Korea's U.N. Ambassador Sin Son-ho told a rare news conference.
I would be shocked if NK's leadership started a shooting war. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Of course, afaik, that was true before they sank that SK gun boat....
The Cheonan was completely not sunk by North Korea, ok
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/f...14_cheonan.jpg
I'm really getting sick of the U.N pandering to Pyongyang.
UN = China.
How so?
That was the claim made above. The UN isn't "doing" or not "doing" anything. China is the one blocking action against North Korea, and it happens to have a veto.
Here's the thing though, we don't win either if they start a shooting war. Yes, we'd very likely beat them in a war, but the effects of this would be loss of life and infrastructure in any area of South Korea that can be reached my North Korean artillery, having to care for and over-see a very large population of starving and potentially brainwashed North Koreans, potentially helping them rebuild their nation from scratch, and increased tensions with China, and perhaps Russia. They likely know this too, and are banking on us not wanting to incur the costs of winning a war against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
China's patronage is probably having a significant moderating effect on the Nork's behavior, which likely more valuable than meaningless UN gestures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Think of the post-war re-building investment opportunities!Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusions
And cheap labor. Don't forget the cheap labor. I'm surprised the top hat and monocle club isn't rushing in here to support a nice little war.
:D Thank you for the wonderful imagery. Probably the nuke thing is the problem. Even those fizzle nukes probably would leave a lot of radiation and that's got to be messy to clean up.Quote:
Originally Posted by agamemnus
Meh, it's North Korea. They'd probably aim for Japan and hit somewhere in the Indian Ocean instead. Let the fishies glow green for a while, it'll help them learn to be less jealous of the ones who can do it without being nuked first.
Do you really think they're jealous?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
Of course they are. Why else would they force all the bioluminescent fishies to live in the deep dark parts of the ocean while they keep the more vibrant parts to themselves? Pure jealousy.
More on topic, this is linked to from the front page right now:
Quote:
SEOUL — The United States on Wednesday announced new sanctions against North Korea, targeted against its leadership, and warned of serious consequences if it again attacked the South.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the sanctions would be aimed at the sale or procurement of arms and related goods as well as luxury items used to fund the regime's activities.
The U.S. will freeze assets as well as prevent some businesses and individuals from traveling abroad, and collaborate with banks to stop illegal financial transactions. The sanctions also will seek to stop the abuse of diplomatic privileges in order to carry out illegal activities, Clinton said.
Relations across the divided peninsula have turned increasingly hostile after South Korea accused the North of sinking one of its warships in March, killings 46 sailors.
Clinton said Washington was ready to return to international talks over North Korea's nuclear weapons program if Pyongyang sent a "positive signal," but that there had been none so far.
Speaking at a joint news conference in Seoul after holding unprecedented security talks with U.S. and South Korean defense and military officials, Clinton said the sanctions were part of measures designed to rein in the regime's nuclear activities by stamping out illegal moneymaking ventures used to fund the program.
"We are aiming very specifically, after much intensive research built on what was done before but not limited to that, to target the leadership, to target their assets," Clinton said.
She insisted the additional sanctions were not aimed at ordinary North Koreans, who make up one of the world's poorest societies and whose stumbling economy is already largely sealed off from the outside world because of nuclear and missile tests.
The officials warned of "serious consequences" if there were any future North Korean attacks against the South.
Earlier in the day, Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert Gates made an unusual joint visit to the heavily defended demilitarized zone (DMZ) that divides the two Koreas amid a warning the peninsula faced a dangerous new period.
Nearly 2 million troops flank a 2.5-mile-wide strip of land that has kept the two Koreas apart for nearly 60 years and is one of the last relics of the Cold War.
Clinton said the North could have what it wants — a peace treaty, normal relations with the United States and an end to sanctions — if it ended its belligerence and took irreversible steps to end attempts to build atomic weapons.
"But until they change direction, the United States stands firmly on behalf of the people and the government of the Republic of Korea," she said.
'Dangerous period'
The retired general nominated by U.S. President Barack Obama to be his intelligence chief said on Tuesday that the sinking of the South Korean warship Cheonan may herald a "dangerous new period" of direct attacks by Pyongyang on the South.
The warning by James Clapper at his Senate confirmation hearing for director of national intelligence put a spotlight on growing concern within the U.S. intelligence community and the Pentagon about what they see as the North's increasingly unpredictable behavior.
Gates earlier announced that joint U.S. and South Korean naval and air exercises would begin next weekend that will include the aircraft carrier USS George Washington and F-22 Raptor aircraft.
The planned exercises have been criticized by North Korea which accused the two allies of using them to prepare for an attack.
China, North Korea's only major ally, has also voiced its unease at the drills in its region and state television on Tuesday showed the Chinese navy conducting its own exercises that included helicopters and a submarine.
On Wednesday, China expressed "deep concern" about the joint military drills.
"We urge relevant parties to remain calm and exercise restraint and not do anything to exacerbate regional tensions," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said in a statement.
Gates called for a resumption of military-to-military ties with China, suspended earlier this year over planned U.S. arms sales to Taiwan.
The concerns coincide with worries about the health of iron ruler Kim Jong-il, who appears to be trying to engineer the succession for his youngest son as leader of one of the world's most isolated countries, which has been pressing ahead with efforts to develop a nuclear arsenal.
North Korea has repeatedly argued that it has no choice but to build a nuclear deterrent in the face of U.S. aggression. Analysts say Kim uses the constant threat of war as justification to focus on maintaining one of the world's largest standing armies while the economy falls into near ruin.
"In the 20 years since I last climbed that observation tower and looked out across the DMZ, it's stunning how little has changed up there and yet how much South Korea continues to grow and prosper," said Gates. "The North, by contrast, stagnates in isolation and deprivation."
SourceQuote:
N. Korea threatens 'physical response' to U.S. military drills
Country claims its sovereignty will be violated by maneuvers
HANOI, Vietnam — North Korea threatened Friday to mount a "physical response" to United States' military drills in the region.
Its government claimed that the exercises with South Korean forces would violate its sovereignty.
The statement came as top American and North Korean diplomats were meeting face-to-face Friday at an Asian security conference.
The North has denied responsibility for the sinking of the Cheonan navy ship that killed 46 Sout Korean sailors, despite an international investigation that found otherwise.
The U.S. and South Korea are demanding an apology from Pyongyang, dooming any prospects of a breakthrough to help ease tensions on the Korean peninsula.
All members of the stalled six-nation talks aimed at ridding the North of its nuclear weapons attended Friday's meeting in the Vietnamese capital of Hanoi, but there was little hope of a thaw.
Wraith, do you remember when the U.S and the South are going to start those exercises?
CNN says Sunday.
So we'd violate North Korea's sovereignty by not doing anything on North Korean territory? :bored:
Being "aggressive" violates their sovereignty. It's an insult to their proud nation and such insults can only be met with lots of bluster. . . force, I mean force(ful words).Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
The North is being more specific now.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38375802...s-asiapacific/Quote:
SEOUL — North Korea warned Saturday that it will respond with "powerful nuclear deterrence" to joint U.S. and South Korean military exercises poised to begin this weekend, saying the drills amount to a provocation that cannot be ignored.
North Korea routinely threatens war when South Korea and the U.S. hold joint military drills, which Pyongyang sees as a rehearsal for an attack on the North. The latest threat comes amid increased tensions on the peninsula over the deadly sinking of a South Korean warship that Seoul and Washington blame on Pyongyang.
The allies' defense chiefs announced earlier in the week they would stage the drills to send a clear message to North Korea to stop its "aggressive" behavior. Forty-six South Korean sailors were killed in the March sinking of the Cheonan, considered the worst military attack on the South since the 1950-53 Korean War.
North Korea vehemently denies any involvement and says any punishment would trigger war.
On Saturday, North Korea's powerful National Defense Commission — headed by leader Kim Jong Il — backed that threat up by promising a "retaliatory sacred war" against South Korea and the U.S. for what it called a second "unpardonable" provocation after wrongly accusing the North in the Cheonan incident.
"The army and people of the (North) will legitimately counter with their powerful nuclear deterrence the largest-ever nuclear war exercises," the commission said in a statement carried by the country's official Korean Central News Agency.
A day earlier in Hanoi, a North Korean spokesman for the delegation attending a regional security conference warned the drills would draw a "physical response" from Pyongyang.
That was a stupid threat by North Korea. With that kind of threat, there's no way the US could back down. And indeed, we haven't.
SourceQuote:
ABOARD USS GEORGE WASHINGTON — A nuclear-powered U.S. supercarrier began maneuvers Sunday with ally South Korea in a potent show of force, four months after the sinking of a South Korean warship. North Korea threatened the exercises could lead to nuclear war.
The military drills, set to run through Wednesday, involve about 8,000 U.S. and South Korean troops, 20 ships and submarines and 200 aircraft. The USS George Washington, with several thousand sailors and dozens of fighter jets aboard, was deployed from Japan.
Will I wake up in the morning to a nuclear missile overhead? I can't wait to find out!
SourceQuote:
SEOUL, South Korea — For four days, U.S. and South Korean troops fired artillery into the skies and dropped anti-submarine bombs on underwater targets — dramatic exercises meant to warn North Korea not to strike again.
The South Korean military said the show of force, which ended Wednesday, succeeded in sending a pointed warning to North Korea four months after the deadly sinking of a South Korean warship.
Indeed, the shiny armada of destroyers and stealth fighter jets — led by a nuclear-powered supercarrier that at 97,000 tons is one of the world's largest — appeared to have muted the regime.
After days of threatening to wage a powerful nuclear strike in response to the drills, North Korea issued a feeble call Wednesday for the U.S. to drop its "hostile policy" against Pyongyang.
However, some analysts say it's too early to claim success against the unpredictable North.
Jeung Young-tae of the government-funded Korea Institute for National Unification in Seoul said the drills could provide just the excuse the regime needs to carry out another act of nuclear defiance: a nuclear test.
South Korea and U.S. officials said no unusual military activity has been detected this week in the North, and that the drills demonstrated the allies' firepower.
"These defensive, combined training exercises are designed to send a clear message to North Korea that its aggressive behavior must stop," Gen. Walter L. Sharp, the top U.S. military commander in South Korea, said in a statement issued Thursday. The two countries "are committed to enhancing our combined defensive capabilities."
Rear Adm. Kim Kyung-sik of the South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff told reporters Wednesday that the U.S. and South Korea showed off some "impressive firepower" and demonstrated the allies' solidarity.
Another round of joint exercises is due to take place in August.
However, the military parade of 20 warships, 200 aircraft and 8,000 U.S. and South Korean soldiers may reinforce Pyongyang's resolve to keep building its nuclear program, some analysts said.
The Korean peninsula technically remains in a state of war because the 1950-53 Korean conflict ended with an armistice, not a peace treaty.
Decades later, the two Koreas are divided by one of the world's most heavily fortified borders, and the U.S. keeps 28,500 troops in the South.
North Korea cites the U.S. troops and Washington's insistence on maintaining a "nuclear umbrella" in the region as key motives behind its drive to build atomic weapons.
Pyongyang is believed to have enough weaponized plutonium to build at least a half-dozen bombs, and last year admitted to enriching uranium, which would give it a second way to make nuclear bombs.
What North Korea needs now is to keep testing its weapons, and hard-line moves like the joint military drills could provide the regime with an excuse to stage an atomic test, Jeung said.
"I think the time for a third nuclear test is getting closer," he said, noting that it is a "necessary" next step if the North wants to improve its nuclear weaponry.
North Korea has tested two atomic weapons underground, in 2006 and in 2009, and has test-fired a long-range missile built to strike the western U.S.
Analyst Paik Hak-soon of the Sejong Institute near Seoul said both a nuclear test and test-fire of a long-range missile could be in the cards.
"North Korea considers the joint drills in the East Sea a security threat," he said. "It wouldn't be hard for North Korea to find an excuse to weaponize its nuclear program."
One analyst doubted that the impoverished North is preparing more provocations, with China — its main benefactor and traditional ally — likely urging North Korea to return to nuclear disarmament talks instead.
North Korea walked away from the six-nation disarmament-for-aid talks last year.
"North Korea has talked about retaliation based on its 'nuclear deterrent,' but it has to think about its relations with China and its international isolation," said Baek Seung-joo of the state-run Korea Institute for Defense Analyses in Seoul.
"North Korea displayed a hard-line stance but it may only be a face-saving measure," he said. "It's likely that North Korea and China are discussing resuming the six-party talks now."
A senior Chinese envoy, Assistant Foreign Minister Hu Zhengyue, was in North Korea on Wednesday with a delegation from Beijing, China's state-run Xinhua News Agency said.
In the midst of the military show on the East Sea, with helicopters dropping sonar buoys, F-18 fighters embarking on bombing runs and destroyers firing at unmanned aerial drones, the U.S. and the two Koreas marked the day 57 years ago this week that a truce ended the Korean War.
"The Korean peninsula has not been entirely at peace for the past 57 years," Gen. Walter Sharp, commander of U.S. forces in South Korea and the U.S.-led U.N. Command, said in a ceremony Tuesday at the DMZ.
In Pyongyang, military officers in uniforms bedecked with medals laid bouquets at a war memorial, according to footage aired by TV news agency APTN.
The regime used the occasion to press for a long-held request: a peace treaty with the U.S.
I am unnuked. :(