NRW is not just a state it's the largest with 18 Million Citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
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NRW is not just a state it's the largest with 18 Million Citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Wow! Jethro Tull was way ahead of the times.
Quote:
In the shuffling madess
of the locomotive breath,
runs the all-time loser,
headlong to his death.
He feels the piston scraping --
steam breaking on his brow --
oh Greece stole the handle and
the train won't stop going --
no way to slow down.
NRW is not just a state. Its also a pretty critical state, if the CDU lose NRW then they automatically lose control of the Bundesrat too. That means that in practice its has federal consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
That's irrelevant to sterling/euro. If Brown is re-elected then we will have a British meltdown - being a member of the eurozone would not have prevented it anymore than the euro prevented the current Greek tragedy.Quote:
Dream on I'd say. If your miracle election doesn't materialize we won't be talking about a Greek crisis any longer but about the British meltdown.
NRW has 6 votes in the Bundesrat, even if Merkel were to lose control over their voting power she'd still hold a massive majority there. So the effects of losing NRW will just be losing NRW. Which really isn't so bad if the alternative is plunging your banking sector into a second major crisis with a serious risk of tanking the economy at large (after which the following elections will make sure losing NRW was only the beginning).
As for the euro not preventing the Greek tragedy; maybe, but it is sure keeping that from turning into a complete meltdown.
CDU/CSU and FDP currently have 37/69 votes, a majority. If NRW were to go to SPD then they'd only have 31/69 - not a majority.
They'd still have a slender majority when counting the states they have combined with the Greens, but not a "massive majority" by any means.
The states have bloc votes, and are bound to go with the goverment in all states where the CDU/CSU is in power, regardless of their coalition partners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
I think you're both right —*this does demonstrate a fundamental weakness of the Euro (and enforcing the pact requirements about deficits. But it doesn't mean keeping the British pound particularly avoided these stormy waters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
It's not possible for any nation to avoid stormy waters.
Keeping the pound means we're responsible for our own waters.
Having the euro means the waters are shared: Germany gets dragged down by Greece, Greece gets a helping hand from Germany.
Neither method could ever be perfect. Depends if you prefer international co-operation or independent responsibility.
Germany doesn't get dragged down by Greece you dimwit. Banks are being dragged down by Greece at a moment that we can't really afford our banks to take any losses. If there hadn't been a financial crisis going on Greece could have defaulted for all anybody would have cared. The problem is that banks didn't spread with enough caution and thus are over exposed to the Greek debt. Saving Greece is about saving banks in Germany and other countries. Including the UK.
Which is why the UK is bailing out Greece?
Oh wait, its not. The eurozone nations are. Try again.
Huh. Looks like all they need to do is start collecting the taxes their people owe and they'll be about out of trouble.
Greeks cheat on taxes
Right, like the IMF isn't co-funding this rescue, try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
The tax-system itself is even encouraging it. In Greece you will see a lot of houses that never seem to be quite out of the building stage. Reason? Not untill the building of your house is finished do you pay property taxes on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Whereas if it weren't for the euro the IMF would be funding the rescue, like the last Labour government that stooped to the IMF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
And the Germans seriously have no reason to be at all annoyed ...Quote:
The tax-system itself is even encouraging it. In Greece you will see a lot of houses that never seem to be quite out of the building stage. Reason? Not untill the building of your house is finished do you pay property taxes on it.
You didn't understand that part of the IMF money comes from the UK?
I do indeed, 5% IIRC. However there's a difference between a share within the IMF and a significantly bigger share within the Eurozone.
Yesterday's May Day/I Want Govt Money marches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDU1-1_xUMc
What a lovely country of brats.
Yeah, but they had those demonstrations already before there was a question of austerity measures.
They're not a country of brats. They're a county that's had endemic corruption for decades, with promises made that could never be sustained. Reality has hit and they're angry. It might be misdirected anger, but that doesn't make them brats.
You are wrong, this type of demonstration is how they used to get things their way. They haven't gotten to the point yet where they realise no amount of rioting is going to protect them from the fact that their state is technically bankrupt. The only way they could succeed is that other states realise it's not going to work this way and that they pull out of the Greek mess. After which Greece will default, and will simply have to stop paying salaries and pensions alltogether.
Hazir is right, this stuff is common from what I've heard.
Common in Greece and how they'd push to influence government, yes. That doesn't make them a nation of brats. You can say it, but it doesn't mean you should. :bored:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there is nothing against calling it a duck.
Then your sig is sarcastic? :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/wo...%2Findex.jsonp
Sounds similar to sentiments in the US. Some of the protesters are anarchists, or just people venting anger. Much like US Tea Party rallies.Quote:
“This crisis is not my fault, I won’t accept these austerity measures and I want to know where all the money has gone,” Emily Thomaidis, 29, the owner of a coffee shop, said as she marched through central Athens past vendors selling newspapers with the headlines “Fear. Rage. Hope.” She added, “Why should my generation have to pay the price for problems created by our parents’ generation?”
If we cut SS and Medicare, or change union contracts, there will be public protests, too. I suppose that would make the US a nation of brats in your mind. How productive.
I do think we're a nation of brats to not cut SS, Medicare and re-work government union contracts. The problem is sitting in front of us and avoidable.
Makes me wonder what it's going to look like in the US.
The agreed bail-out will of €110bn will be €80bn from the eurozone, €30bn from the IMF.
The UK therefore will provide €1.5bn of the IMF funds (we provide 5% of IMF funding), nothing as I understand it at all from the eurozone funds.
How much exactly is Germany providing? More or less than €1.5bn? Need I ask ...
Yeah that was a pretty interesting graphic. It also shows to me that we need a stronger government on the EU level.
Or the ending of socialistic nonsense....Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Citation neededQuote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
And when exactly did banks and financial institutions investing in foreign bonds become socialist ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewkowski
Oh dear. "Wishing Greece had never joined the euro".
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/bu...gewanted=1&hpw
As if the problem is the euro. Without being a member of the EMU they'd be two weeks away from a default on their sovereign debt. Now at least they still have a chance of saving themselves from the misery that would have caused.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
They could have used the advantages of being in the euro to their benefit. They decided to abuse it and go on a stupid national spending spree. One in bloody four workers in that farce of a country is employed by the state.
The problem is a third world country pretending to be something it is not. And anybody who has been to Greece realizes this about it right away.
Seriously, 20+ years ago traveling through Europe the pre-wife and I realized that Portugal, Spain and Greece were sort of faux European countries, wrt to economies. It was obvious to a couple of 20 year olds with backpacks. We've recently rehashed some of those discussions, and concluded that if at the time somebody asked us "which of these will go bust in 20 years," we probably would have said Greece, followed by Spain and Portugal.
Italy is its own special case. :bored:
At least with Turkey you know that they're not faking it. They couldn't because they don't have to money to do so.
Or maybe the currency might have devalued causing an increase of imports and a decrease in exports as well as rising inflation - all of which while not ideal normally would have helped in this situation.
Andl what do you think our dear Greek civil servants would have exported? It is my understanding that strikes, even if they're discounted, don't travel well.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Straight off the top of my head: Tourism.
Because of the devaluing pound, it has become more expensive for Brits to travel to Europe and instead many holidaymakers have been holidaying in the UK. But Greece doesn't need/deserve a strong euro, had the drachma fallen then it'd be cheaper for foreigners to travel to Greece and holiday there. Which during a recession cheap holidays could prove a real boon for somewhere that is a natural tourist resort.
If planes are flying in Europe, yes :p
Most holiday makers in Greece come from Germany anyway. They can still afford Greek Metaxa.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
