What do you mean by that, and can you expound on it?
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What do you mean by that, and can you expound on it?
Since you didn't answer me, I'll refer back to what Hazir said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Yes, it's troubling that the Syrian civil war has created so many refugees going to Turkey (and Jordan). It's also disturbing that Turkey hadn't cracked down on black market oil, money laundering, or been more stringent on people and/or goods crossing their borders a few years earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
Foreign fighters (aka terrorist recruits) have used Turkey like a conduit to get into Syria, and Assad's regime wasn't doing much to keep them out, either. That's why I asked if you could explain this as someone who's travelled in-and-out of Turkey?
Loki, since Turkey is a NATO member....that's just one example of how the US and Europe didn't use ALL its diplomatic and non-military influences to maximum effect. We could have put a lot of pressure on Turkey to manage its border crossings during Syria's internal conflicts, so why didn't we do that when it could have made a difference?
Cause Turkey is an ally and not a vassal?
Apparently GGT's strategy to avoid unnecessary wars is to attack our allies for not helping us avoid the wars. :noob:
We live in a strange world where the vice-president of the mightiest country in the world has to apologize for saying the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
I think everyone realizes what kind of a psycho Erdogan is and we don't want to ruffle his feathers right now.
Also, Biden is Biden: http://news.yahoo.com/uae-demands-cl...110626566.html
The strategy is becoming clear, and the results are getting glaringly obvious. Too bad the US government thinks they can work with this man. What we see now is a situation in which IS is allowed to continue conquering parts of Syria that were under control of Kurdish fighters. IS may very well succeed, and the Turkish government sees that as a possitive developement because they think it will weaken the Syrian kurds and thus weaken the position of the PKK in Turkey proper. They also hope it will put them in the right position to at some later point reduce Syria, under a new regime, to a vassal of Turkey just like in the good old Ottoman times. I kid you not; this is how the present leadership in Turkey thinks; everything went wrong when the empire collapsed and everything will be solved once it has been restored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
In the real world in the meanwhile Kurds in Turkey are becoming extremely angry at the inaction of the Turkish government and there are big demonstrations against the government and in support of the PKK. The number of people who think this country might sleepwalk into a civil war is growing by the day.
Yeah, Turkish inaction is becoming pretty indefensible at this point. It wouldn't take much for a Turkish brigade to push ISIS back, but having a bunch of Kurdish civilians slaughtered is apparently something Erdogan wants to see. Apparently, the death of 2k Palestinians is a genocide, but the potential death of tens of thousands of Kurds is just fine.
At the moment I can hear the sound of thousands of pots and pans, in protest of the government's Syria policies.
We give them stripped down equipmentQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
It seems to do the job for ISIS.
14 dead, countless wounded. Mind you, inside Turkey. Meanwhile the band plays on.
I like that Erdogan thinks he can dictate terms to Western countries, especially when he's one of the main reasons ISIS is where it is right now.
It's probably due his arrogance that he actually believes that he can gain something from the whole conflict. I am not sooo sure about that.
If you want to know where he gets his megalomanic ideas from you only have to read the crap his prime minister Davutoglu tries to pass for academic work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
P.S. according to the mouth pieces of the Sultan we now also have a 'Chaos Lobby'. If I interpreting the sounds right protests are going on around Taksim square. I hope you lot don't mind I stay in as the police is extremely violent in their response again.
Death toll so far : 22
Given his ego, I think these protests are just going to make him dig in harder.
It's funny that people have a hot debate on ISIS, Turkey..... . It's only a hoax of US ruling class. They always set up an enemy, with it they can demand money and power from people. ISIS is just another false flag to replace Al Qaida. That's why ISIS can suddenly develops to a strong force with everything: money, arms and land. When it threatens the security of its neighbors such like Turkey possibly Saudi later, these countries will turn onto US for help. That's what US wants.
No, what I said is that we didn't encourage/influence/pressure our allies to tamp down their internal conflicts (with political reformation) until it was too late....and we'd gotten dragged into another war. :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Even stranger when "the mightiest country in the world" is portrayed as both too bossy and too timid by Middle East nations -- who then turn around and beg (even demand) our military help. We're criticized no matter what, damned if we do/damned if we don't. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
<Personally, it bothers me even more when our own politicians play that game with our own policies. The Hawks and military interventionists will always say "things wouldn't be this bad if we'd had a stronger military presence"....even though so much of the bad can be traced back to our military presence in the first place.>
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/wo...urds-isis.html Turkey finally taking action against ISIS. Maybe not. Looks like my previous post was spot on.
So this is now, what, a four, five way war? Is this some kind of attempt to break Wikipedia's armed conflict infobox template?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
There are so many sides to this conflict that the wisest approach to it is to treat the knight in shining armour who killed the guy who tried to behead you and sell off your wife and children as just another enemy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
The "enemy of my enemy is my friend" isn't such a great concept for designing foreign or domestic policy, is it? :bulb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
It's not a very good 'principle' for politicians to use, or garner votes, during highly politicized and polarized times, using the Fear Factor. But they do.
At this point in time....it seems to me that the US is carrying a heavier load than it should. Maybe it harkens back to WWII mentalities, when the US was the force that broke the axis....and became a "superpower" that could direct world events.
The UK is another western "force" that's considered an ally. While it's not clear if UK Royal Air Force or military is stronger than its Financial Street.....what IS clear is how England gets its tax income and how they use it. The US can't say the same. :sour:
SyrianAmbassador Calls ISIS An ‘American Myth’
10/16/2014
The Syrian Ambassador to India claimed that ISIS was anAmerican invention on Wednesday, among other controversial remarks.
“ISIS is an American myth, which gets direct support fromTayyip Erdogan’s [the president] Turkey and is funded by Saudi Arabia andQatar,” according to Ambassador Riad Kamel Abbas. “Al Qaeda appeared in Syriaafter the US invaded Iraq. Before that there was no al Qaeda in Syria. It isclear that al Qaeda was created by the US and it is supporting ISIS.”
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-ambassa...230412940.html
I think somebody forgot to brief the ambassador on how Tayip and Obama are not such good friends, actually.
Funny to hear by the way that the US now is delivering goods/weapons from the autonomous kurdish zone in Iraq to the autonomous kurdish zone in Syria. All against the expressed disapproval of Tayip. I mean, the new sultan of the Ottoman empire mark 2, has been proven to have no influence on what happens 800m from his borders.
ISILterrorist leader is CIA agent: Chechen president
23rd October 2014
Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov says the ISIL terroristgroup’s leader, Ibrahim Samarrai who is known by the alias Abu Bakral-Baghdadi, works for the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and isfinancially supported by western secret services.
“Baghdadi should take off his mask and declare loudly andclearly that he is a CIA agent, that he has been recruited,” Kadyrov said onTuesday, adding, “They (the ISIL militants) are Shaitans (devils) and theirsole obsession is to grab as much money as they can lay hands on. They areacting on orders from the West and deliberately exterminating Muslims.”
http://www.ishapuntland.com/?p=7520
Iraq WarVet: US Camps Became 'Terrorist Universities' for ISIS
Thursday, 16 Oct 2014
U.S. military detainment camps in Iraq became universitiesfor terror when hardcore radical Muslims who were jailed with moderate,nonviolent Iraqis used the opportunity to intimidate and browbeat them intobecoming fanatical terrorists, according to a U.S. Iraq War veteran.
Today, many of those who once were in U.S. custody are backon the frontlines, fighting for the Islamic State (ISIS) to establish a radicalMuslim caliphate in the Middle East.
The charges come from Andrew Thompson, who spent time in Iraqas a compound intelligence officer at Camp Cropper in 2009 where, he told CNNNews, the radical prisoners actually ran the prison, forcing the oftenilliterate, moderate, and less threatening prisoners to obey their orders,while U.S. authorities did nothing to stop them.
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ISI...#ixzz3GLAfmCjg
US have the best power of air control. It eliminated Saddam'sand Kaddafi's air force easily at the early stage of war. IS had only threecaptured fighters. Why it's Syria's air force not US and its allies' that destroyedIS' airplanes?
SQuote:
yriaClaims It Destroyed Jets Seized By ISIS
Reuters : 10/22/2014
(Reuters) - Syria's air force has destroyed two fighter jetsoperated by Islamic State militants in the north of the country, InformationMinister Omran Zoabi said in remarks published on Syria's state news agencySANA late on Tuesday.
A Syrian monitoring group said on Friday that Iraqi pilotstrained under former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had joined Islamic Stateand were conducting training flights in three captured fighter jets at a airbase in Aleppo province.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6027332.html
ISIS was first created to fight against Syria's Assad. Assad regime is a hard rock, so the ISIS turns onto Iraq. Iraq's govetrnment is a puppet set up by the US. It is so corrupt that once attacked by the ISIS, Iraqi miliitary collapsed. That's the sudden rise of the ISIS. To save the puppet Iraq government, US has to activate it air force to support Iraqi army.
Still, US wants ISIS aiming at Syria's Assad. That's why US didn't touch the only three jets ISIS had had. They hope ISIS could use it to attack Syria's army. Realizing it would be a threat, Syria's air force destroyed the jets ISIS owned. That's the story.
America Never Intended to Defeat The Islamic State (ISIS)
By Tony Cartalucci
Global Research,November 20, 2014
Considering the hysteria generated by ISIS’ alleged globalexploits, it should then be infinitely curious to readers who happen across USpolicymakers claiming that ISIS may pose a threat, but constitutes by far alesser threat than Iran or Syria – the two principle nations leading the realfight against ISIS and its international sponsors. Furthermore, US policymakersclaim there is no urgency to defeat ISIS, and it should instead be “contained.”Of course, this “containment” will be within states targeted by US-backedregime change – serving as a convenient agent of destruction, destabilization,and perhaps even regime change itself.
Image: A growingchorus among US policymakers and the Western media are claiming that ISIS posesa minimal threat even amid simaltaneous efforts to ratchet up public hysteria.The West also claims it is no longer necessary to “defeat” ISIS and it shouldinstead be “contained” – instead nations targeted for regime change by the US,allowed to continue fighting America’s enemies by proxy … or in other words,ISIS should continue serving as the West’s private mercenary army.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america...e-isis/5415244
Earlier this month Nabil Na’eem, the founder of the IslamicDemocratic Jihad Party and former top al-Qaeda commander, told the Beirut-basedpan-Arab TV station al-Maydeen all current al-Qaeda affiliates, including ISIS,work for the CIA.
Islamic State cedes little ground despite air attacks
By Dominic Evans and Oliver Holmes 12/4/2014
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-...063529698.html