Pubbie v. left THUNDERDOME (apparently)

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

As I've said I don't think a federal ban on funding this research would be catastrophic. There is enough established potential here for private and university investors to be involved in the space. Though I do wish the federal government would drop the pretense.

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But don't you hold the position that the government shouldn't be in the business of....telling business what they can or can't do? If it's a ban on federal funding, isn't that the same thing as a ban on an activity that's too expensive for any private enterprise to start or carry?

:confused:

Branson may be using his billions for private space travel, but that's only on the tail winds of NASA's previous investment in R & D. Facebook and Twitter may be billion dollar companies, but only because Gates and Jobs and IBM (and Al Gore, of course :haha: ) invented the internet, with help from government investment first.

Bio research isn't too expensive for private enterprises to do. The federal government mainly has a higher tolerance for not seeing financial success from its research, which is useful for bio research (yes, I realize I'm oversimplifying).

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

Bio research isn't too expensive for private enterprises to do. The federal government mainly has a higher tolerance for not seeing financial success from its research, which is useful for bio research (yes, I realize I'm oversimplifying).

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I don't think you're saying anything at all, but hey

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

All we have is them saying it would be, I haven't so far seen why. And if federal funding is really such a lifetime, I would imagine any federal funding restriction/cut on anything for any reason would also be "catastrophic."

Nessie- I support the federal funding of stem cell research.

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Ah, you don't see. So, I repeat the question: Do you study molecular biology or a related field? No?

Oh my god! We don't have a practical application after five years! There won't ever be something worthwhile in this field!

Do you study biology? Does the fact that you didn't stop you from opining on anything?

We haven't read any detailed explanation on why it's catastrophic. We just have two scientists saying it is. More explanation is needed.

Oh, and I was briefly pre-med in college before switching because chemistry was gonna kill me and I needed better grades to switch colleges.

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Originally Posted by Nessus

And what, precisely, are your credentials vis a vis this decision? Don't get me wrong, as long as the Latino demographic keeps growing I don't want the US gaining head in any area of research, but given that you live and breathe American air, oughtn't you have at least a passing interest in keeping American interests afloat on the globe?

Although you were waving your little flags at Ryan's budget plan, so I guess you do have America at heart, but are dead set in buying whatever the Village has for sale. So, never mind, I guess.

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What have you got against Latinos? :confused: Also, the idea that the government should not invest in technology, engineering and infrastructure puts the US on a sure road to a 2nd tier nation.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

What have you got against Latinos? :confused:

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They're not Herrenvolk.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Also, the idea that the government should not invest in technology, engineering and infrastructure puts the US on a sure road to a 2nd tier nation.

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So much better for the rest of us, non?

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

All we have is them saying it would be, I haven't so far seen why. And if federal funding is really such a lifetime, I would imagine any federal funding restriction/cut on anything for any reason would also be "catastrophic."

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IIRC the article looks at research papers that cite work on Embyros AND Pluripotents at the same time vs. those that only cite work on Pluripotents. (62% use both) The conclusion is that research on the latter requires us of the former.

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Originally Posted by Nessus

So much better for the rest of us, non?

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<sigh> Without America you Europeans would all be speaking Russian and wriggling under Commissar boot heels right now. Sure, life would be more predictable, predictably miserable, but uncertainty has its rewards.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

<sigh> Without America you Europeans would all be speaking Russian and wriggling under Commissar boot heels right now. Sure, life would be more predictable, predictably miserable, but uncertainty has its rewards.

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German, my dear. German.

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Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

German, my dear. German.

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I'm not so sure of that. The Soviets seemed to have the upper hand after that first winter. You could argue that having 2 fronts and Lend Lease tipped the balance, but I'm not so sure..... Certainly by the time of the D-Day invasion it became, for practical purposes, a race to see how much of Europe would be behind the Iron Curtain.

I for one think that Finland was biding it's time to overthrow both Russia and Germany before the damn yanks had to butt in.

Finland is full of very dangerous, very vitamin D defficient people.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

<sigh> Without America you Europeans would all be speaking Russian and wriggling under Commissar boot heels right now. Sure, life would be more predictable, predictably miserable, but uncertainty has its rewards.

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And which untermensch is America guarding us Nordics from today? The Chink?

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Originally Posted by Nessus

And which untermensch is America guarding us Nordics from today? The Chink?

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Where the hell have you been the last ten years? Hello - Islamofascist Suicide Extremists. Duh. :rolleyes:

Actually, some Mohammedan jack-hole tried to take the "glory" of an unexploded bomb someone had left in a court-yard in Helsinki, but turns out it was just domestic anarchist jack-asses.

And you guys are being horribly inefficient with your genocide of the Ayrabs, shit even we knocked off more Rushki civvies in the 40s.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

IIRC the article looks at research papers that cite work on Embyros AND Pluripotents at the same time vs. those that only cite work on Pluripotents. (62% use both) The conclusion is that research on the latter requires us of the former.

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You must tell me which is the better tasting ice cream. Vanilla or Chocolate. While I will let you taste Vanilla, it is still not legal to taste, nor consume Chocolate ice cream, so use your judgement on what you think it tastes like. Whatever ice cream tastes the best you can use to make a lovely ice cream sunday. The future of the human race will be affected by your decision. :noob:

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Originally Posted by Nessus

Actually, some Mohammedan jack-hole tried to take the "glory" of an unexploded bomb someone had left in a court-yard in Helsinki, but turns out it was just domestic anarchist jack-asses.

And you guys are being horribly inefficient with your genocide of the Ayrabs, shit even we knocked off more Rushki civvies in the 40s.

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But consider the money so many people are making off all this. Doesn't that count for something? Besides, the government is expected to be inefficient. Haven't you been listenting to the anti-humanists here??? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Illusions

You must tell me which is the better tasting ice cream. Vanilla or Chocolate. While I will let you taste Vanilla, it is still not legal to taste, nor consume Chocolate ice cream, so use your judgement on what you think it tastes like. Whatever ice cream tastes the best you can use to make a lovely ice cream sunday. The future of the human race will be affected by your decision. :noob:

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You forgot to mention that God may, or may not, get mad if I taste the Chocolate. And even though our government isn't supposed to be involved in such things, the main reason for banning chocolate is that.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

You forgot to mention that God may, or may not, get mad if I taste the Chocolate. And even though our government isn't supposed to be involved in such things, the main reason for banning chocolate is that.

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What he actually forgot to mention is the fact that it is legal to taste and make chocolate, you just have to make it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

What he actually forgot to mention is the fact that it is legal to taste and make chocolate, you just have to make it yourself.

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He, and you, ALSO forgot to mention that when you say "yourself" you mean the law specifically requires using kitchens that government funds had no part in building or stocking with utensils and materials and ALSO that every reasonably good kitchen in the entire country has a LOT of utensils entirely or partially bought with government funds of one sort or another AND ALSO that to do anything with chocolate you would literally have to build an entire kitchen from scratch and you would have to be very careful to use it only for chocolate, or any other material that you make completely outside funding from the government, which in the US is practically nothing. What really ought to be mentioned, if honesty is the goal (and it might not be, sadly), is that such a ban in the US is, in practical real world terms, a ban on making chocolate altogether.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

But consider the money so many people are making off all this. Doesn't that count for something?

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To an American, certainly.

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Originally Posted by Nessus

To an American, certainly.

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What else is there?

Money = access to all things a human needs to survive + access to all things a human wants for pleasure.

Money = safety.

Money = survival.

Love :(

Peace of mind :cry:

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

Love :(

Peace of mind :cry:

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Money = Peace of Mind

Love? LOVE?

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

He, and you, ALSO forgot to mention that when you say "yourself" you mean the law specifically requires using kitchens that government funds had no part in building or stocking with utensils and materials and ALSO that every reasonably good kitchen in the entire country has a LOT of utensils entirely or partially bought with government funds of one sort or another AND ALSO that to do anything with chocolate you would literally have to build an entire kitchen from scratch and you would have to be very careful to use it only for chocolate, or any other material that you make completely outside funding from the government, which in the US is practically nothing. What really ought to be mentioned, if honesty is the goal (and it might not be, sadly), is that such a ban in the US is, in practical real world terms, a ban on making chocolate altogether.

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I suppose that means it's time for somebody to invest in just such a kitchen. If the rewards are as great as you seem to think they are then there should be no shortage of investors.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

All we have is them saying it would be, I haven't so far seen why. And if federal funding is really such a lifetime, I would imagine any federal funding restriction/cut on anything for any reason would also be "catastrophic."

Nessie- I support the federal funding of stem cell research.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

Bio research isn't too expensive for private enterprises to do. The federal government mainly has a higher tolerance for not seeing financial success from its research, which is useful for bio research (yes, I realize I'm oversimplifying).

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As Choob said, 100% private would mean no federal funds for buildings, lab equipment, tax breaks or government grant money. That was the tactic used to de-fund Planned Parenthood, remember. :bored:

We know how expensive bio research actually is, especially pharma. Could have sworn you're on record criticizing other nations' price fixing and not contributing 'their fair share' to US discoveries, causing us to absorb more of the expenses.

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

I suppose that means it's time for somebody to invest in just such a kitchen. If the rewards are as great as you seem to think they are then there should be no shortage of investors.

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This is why almost all of the best medical treatments are based on privately funded desserts

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Originally Posted by Enoch the Red

I suppose that means it's time for somebody to invest in just such a kitchen. If the rewards are as great as you seem to think they are then there should be no shortage of investors.

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Oh, they are. In places like Korea, Japan, Germany, France, etc, where the governments give them grants and subsidies for this work, or at least let them use equipment that was purchased by grants and subsidies for prior research. And this is the basis of the observation that banning Federal funding in the US achieves nothing except making the US uncompetitive in this high potential cutting edge research.

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Originally Posted by EyeKhan

Oh, they are. In places like Korea, Japan, Germany, France, etc, where the governments give them grants and subsidies for this work, or at least let them use equipment that was purchased by grants and subsidies for prior research. And this is the basis of the observation that banning Federal funding in the US achieves nothing except making the US uncompetitive in this high potential cutting edge research.

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I find the idea that the US can't be competitive in cutting edge research without the government's hand being involved laughable.

Would federal funding make it easier? Absolutely, but if the potential for profit/development is as great as you think then there's no reason why it couldn't be privately funded.