UK Election 8th of June

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Originally Posted by Aimless

The Economist is a leftist rag

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No, that's the Financial Times.

The Economists logic is flawed by its own text. They say that the Tories would be much better than Corbyn's Labour but don't vote for them as they're not ideal.

That's rather naive and sort of like saying that one option is salmonella-ridden raw chicken, one option is peri-peri spicy chicken but you kind of prefer steaks so should go with getting a sirloin steak instead. Only problem is the election is being held at Nando's and you're not going to get steak just one of the chicken options and I'd rather go for the spicy chicken even if its not normally your favourite.

Except something short of a Tory majority might force the Tories to examine their nationalism.

Something short of a Tory majority will put Corbyn in Downing Street, the SNP won't work with the Tories and will be the deal makers not the Lib Dems. If you're OK with Corbyn being in Downing Street then fair enough, but if you're not there's only one way to stop that.

Labour won't get the support of Unionists. And any coalition with nationalists and Lib Dems won't last a month.

Rumour has it May is going to chuck the Breximaniacs after the elections?

May is looking weaker by the day. That was the rumour before the election - that a landslide would have given her the authority to sideline whoever she wanted. If she only wins a slender majority against Jeremy Corbyn after having been 25% in the lead then her authority will be shot and she will rely desperately upon her entire party as any rebellion would kill her off. If she fails to get a majority then she is history.

Can't vote for Corbyn can't vote for Farron don't wanna vote for May.

Monster Raving Looney Party are fielding 12 candidates in this election, some across London. Will look into it.

Don't wanna > can't. Vote for the lesser incompetent.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Don't wanna > can't. Vote for the lesser incompetent.

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Corbyn then.

It is quite an achievement to combine first past the post with instable government. In a parliamentarian system no less.

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Originally Posted by RandBlade

Don't wanna > can't. Vote for the lesser incompetent.

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Indeed. I may have to hold my nose and vote May.

My enthusiasm for doing so has been waning over the brief course of this campaign, but there simply is no alternative.

My vote would be a given Lib Dem if Farron weren't a nasty short-sighted evangelical. My local Lib Dem candidate is Vince Cable too, whom I voted out last time with an unexpected Tory victory in Dr Tania Mathias. She has by all accounts been a good local MP, so I'm happy with either Tory or Lib Dem local representation. But Farron as PM would make me queasy.

I had a lot of respect for Clegg and thought the shellacking the LDs got last time wasn't deserved (though Cable as an individual was). Farron OTOH is a different matter, he's an unpleasant evangelical and if a Conservative leader was an evangelical like him it'd be getting a lot more attention. Lamb would have been a much better leader and hopefully will take over if the LDs do badly next week.

I think the fuss about Farron's religion is a little overblown to be honest. It's not like you'd have known about it if someone hadn't asked him, and as long as he doesn't try and, e.g. roll back gay marriage or something then is it really such an issue?

I do blame him for the lackluster Lib Dem campaign, though. Did they think an anti-Brexit vote was just going to magically fall into their laps?

The only one who's had a good campaign has been Corbyn of all people. I think all the major parties need new leaders to be honest.

The SNP has a limited number of fish names to choose from.

What I find funny also is that the pound reacts to the polls as if a big Conservative majority somehow means less Brexit

Or maybe the pound reacts for other reasons. Like a big Conservative majority will be good for the economy?

More like any majority will be good for the economy (relative to a hung parliament or a tiny majority).

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

I think the fuss about Farron's religion is a little overblown to be honest. It's not like you'd have known about it if someone hadn't asked him, and as long as he doesn't try and, e.g. roll back gay marriage or something then is it really such an issue?

I do blame him for the lackluster Lib Dem campaign, though. Did they think an anti-Brexit vote was just going to magically fall into their laps?

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Mmmm. It's more a natural suspicion of any political leader who's motives/beliefs are not what he promotes/espouses. If those motives/beliefs don't in fact translate into policy, then yes I suppose; where's the harm.

But if that is to be the case, where policy is enacted despite what the politician actually believes, then what kind of leader does that make? We saw this clearly with Farron, with his prevarication over answering clear questions concerning homosexuality, only providing a frankly dreadful answer (we're all sinners) through gritted teeth long after it was due.

I want a leader who believes in his policies, in what he is doing, not one who toes the line from the front - of all places - enacting policy which he knows meets general moral consensus but is at odds with his own belief.

Polls are all over the place, but only on Labour vs Tories - anything from a 5% to a 12% lead for May. Consistently show LD on 10% and UKIP on 5%.

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Originally Posted by Timbuk2

Mmmm. It's more a natural suspicion of any political leader who's motives are unnatural, not his own, questionable in origin. If those motives don't in fact translate into policy, then yes I suppose; where's the harm.

But if that is to be the case, where policy is enacted despite what the politician actually believes, then what kind of leader does that make? We saw this clearly with Farron, with his prevarication over answering clear questions concerning homosexuality, only providing a frankly dreadful answer (we're all sinners) through gritted teeth long after it was due.

I want a leader who believes in his policies, in what he is doing, not one who toes the line from the front - of all places - enacting policy which he knows meets general moral consensus but is at odds with his own belief.

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Farron secretly wanting to ban gay marriage isn't really consistent with his voting record, or, indeed, his membership of the Liberal Democrats in the first place. It's not really the sort of place you end up if you're some kind of fiercely socially conservative religious fanatic.

I don't really know what his 'real' opinions are, the mental gymnastics Christians must perform to reconcile their iron age religion with the modern world isn't something I concern myself with.

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Originally Posted by Steely Glint

Farron secretly wanting to ban gay marriage isn't really consistent with his voting record, or, indeed, his membership of the Liberal Democrats in the first place. It's not really the sort of place you end up if you're some kind of fiercely socially conservative religious fanatic.

I don't really know what his 'real' opinions are, the mental gymnastics Christians must perform to reconcile their iron age religion with the modern world isn't something I concern myself with.

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Indeed, his actual record is reasonably liberal.

Mental gymnastics of your strict Christian struggling
to reconcile their religion with the world we know today though ... not a huge concern in your average Joe ... but it is a concern in someone leading the country. Enough, regrettably, to prevent him getting my tick in the box.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBRDXTZW0AA-v_E.jpg

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Originally Posted by Loki

More like any majority will be good for the economy (relative to a hung parliament or a tiny majority).

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The pound was quite happy with the Tory and Liv Dem hung Parliament coalition as the government that was formed was competent and stable. I imagine it would be infinitely more damaging to get a Corbyn majority than a repeat of that Hung Parliament.

Though that result is off the cards though. A great shame the Farron has thrown away a golden opportunity to see the Liberals recover. Labour was never weaker than a few weeks ago but nature abhors a vacuum and with no alternative opposition anyone that opposes the Tories has coalesced around Corbyn rather than the Liberals.

The polls are worthless.

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I honestly hope they both lose. Somehow.

And how would you see that?

No idea. Some scenario where both the mains lost seats, there was a hung parliament and both May and Corbyn where forced to resign.

The Lib Dems are targeting my household something chronic.

Almost every day there is a new leaflet/letter/brochure/news gazette.

Today there were actually handwritten envelopes, no stamps, one to me and one to my partner, from Vince Cable's office. The 'letters' themselves were printed handwriting.

I think from this short campaign thus far, I've had two tory leaflets, one labour leaflet, and around a dozen Lib Dem ones. But then this was a Lib Dem stronghold for a long time. Was a surprise Tory victory last time round, by the thinnest of margins, so Lib Dems doing all they can to reclaim the borough.

Seen more Lab posters than anything else where I live, which is a Labour stronghold, but right next door the shock Tory bi-election win in Copeland, which probably triggered this whole mess to begin with.

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This is like that encryption thing: something they've wanted to do for ages, they're just using these attacks as an excuse even though there's no evidence it would have made the slightest bit of difference.

I must say, this election has made me understand why some people in this country like to use the phrase "Tory scum".