If Britain is better off outside of the EU, why should the initial reaction be in this reaction?
Just wait until Britain gets to hear the terms of a new trade agreement.
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If Britain is better off outside of the EU, why should the initial reaction be in this reaction?
Just wait until Britain gets to hear the terms of a new trade agreement.
Because markets don't like uncertainty in the short-term. On the other hand uncertainty is in the long-term no bad thing, I'm viewing this from the long-term perspective as the right decision. The Brown government thought it had certainty and "eliminated boom and bust" only to lead to the biggest recession we'd seen since the Great Depression. Europe has had a rather "certain" Eurosclerosis for decades now. I'd rather then uncertainty of opportunity than the certainty of decline.
As for the new trade agreement, Britain doesn't "get to hear" a new trade agreement, we get to negotiate a new trade agreement. The world's fifth largest economy, the EU's single largest economy will from today onwards stand proudly and strongly up in the world and stand up for ourselves.
Fear and self-loathing have failed as they deserved to fail. Confidence and optimism are the new order.
http://i.imgur.com/8Vqd5d1.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Right. You're going to have lots of leverage against an EU whose GDP is 5 times larger than yours and an EU that's going to be royally pissed off at this decision. Do you know how negotiations work?
Ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echovirus
If it stays like this good news for our exporters and our tourism, if it doesn't stay like this it's no such big ideal. Either way I'm not planning on going on holiday any time soon.
Yeah, it will be great for your exporters once they figure out where they're still allowed to export.
Everything, cut the bullshit the campaigning is over :rolleyes:
Exactly. Now the bullshit that could convince xenophobic voters is going to be quickly discredited. You'll no longer have the right to your own facts.
Good. Let's get rid of the xenophobic bullshit that encourages us to prioritise white Europeans, or to stop all migration. There is a very rational middle ground that can be reached. Probably I suspect the EFTA with migration kerbs.
Good luck with that as xenophobes or those beholden to them gain influence within both major parties. The Labour Leave MPs are already claiming that the lesson from this referendum is that Labour didn't pay enough attention to the immigration issue.
This may come as a shock to you so keep it secret, but I'm not a Labour voter ...
If you think the next leaders of the Tories and Labour will be pro-immigration, I have a bridge to sell you.
Loki I hope you remembered the bridge tariff.
Better hope its denominated in pounds. :o
While if you think the next leader of the Tories will close the borders, I have a bridge to sell you too ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7103186.html
I wonder if we're seeing the beginning of the end of the Conservative party.
QTWAIN. If anything the Tory party is due a Renaissance now from this. Goodbye Europe divisions.
Is this yet another one of those Brexit promises which is "just a possibility"?
The speed at which some Brexitiers are attempting roll back on the things they said during the campaign is somewhat breathtaking. I know politicians not keeping their promises is something of a cliche, but... they normally wait till a couple of years have passed to go back on them. Not a couple of days after the vote.
I think. . . the Tories have weathered worse, in their long history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Actually, the backtracking had started before the last votes had been counted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
I would be so not surprised if UKIP will be bigger at the next elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformation...7-minister.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
Should we tell Randblade that going on a vacation would be impossible as they were rejecting the pound wholesale over the weekend?
Than one out of 650 MPs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir
I think it's likely they'll end up with less than one now myself, depends if Douglas Carswell decides to stick it out with them. If he doesn't I fail to see why they'll win a new seat when they never have before and they've lost their raison d'etre, if he does stick it out then they'll possibly hold on to his seat. Odds of having more than one MP I'd put at about 5%. Unless somehow Labour and the Lib Dems fight the next election on voiding the referendum (if there's an early GE) in which case I could see UKIP winning working class Labour seats.
You mean like how they're now saying that immigration will be under control rather than dramatically cut? When it was actually policy stated repeatedly to ... take control and not to dramatically cut it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
There was no policy to dramatically cut migration. Pressed on what number of migrants they were proposing in the BBC Great Debate, two days before the Brexit vote, they said that there was no specific number they were saying that the country should have control. Now after the vote the exact same thing is being said and all of a sudden it is a great betrayal.
Maybe if for a split second people had listened to what was actually being said, rather than what you thought/wished was being said, this would come as no big surprise? Maybe if like me you'd comprehended for a split second that Nigel Farage had ZERO to do with the official leave campaign, you'd realise what he was being said was not the promise on offer?
Actually, Hannan has already conceded there won' t be control over immigration.
When you're on record as saying things like, quote, "uncontrolled migration is driving down wages", and then make the assertion that you want to leave the EU so we can "control migration" is it any wonder that people take that to mean migration is going to be be cut dramatically?
May I take the opportunity that your racists don't do the black-white thing? Polish citizens have been treated ghastly over the last few days. So how you think to get away with this kind of claptrap?Quote:
Originally Posted by RandBlade
Really Rand, if you get in bed with the wrong people their flees won't stay off you.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57...5vqfvfs35l8fr= Rand's really on the right side of history here.
Hannan: "We may need to moderate or temper what we are proposing."
More backtracking? Next thing you know he'll be proposing joining the euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
And Farage, who is clearly not going anywhere, is not happy and is kicking up a stink.
Fitch has joined S&P in downgrading the UK's credit rating.
Meanwhile, Corbynites and the Labour mainstream are pretty much in a state of open war.
Can't wait for the season finale.
Honestly, I always had the idea that life outside the EU wouldn't be so nice for the UK, but I never expected the chaos we see this moment. I seriously think you guys need to fix your political system because not only isn't it working but it produces leaders that are by and large amateurs it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
The way I look at the February deal now is that it was a trap that has snapped shut last thursday, and Cameron helped building it himself for God's sake. And now that self-important columnist might be your next PM? Out of the pan into the fire.
It's not like your politic leanings are easy to figure out either, Hazir. ;)
I can understand that; I don t think we really engage in political discussions on this board too often. And then most issues only interest me marginally. I mean, talking about gun control, abortion or other hot topics from the US usually aren t things I really care about. Same sex marriage was personal, so that never lost my interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
Then we have this whole EU debate which is anything but political as far as I am concerned. Unlike what LF thinks I have a lot of things about how the EU functions that I don't like and that I would like to see reformed yesterday. I feel it's a pretty horrible organisation which churns out compromises that make everybody unhappy. However, as far as I am concerned this the the mechanism we have in Europe to solve the questions that arise between us, and it works a hell of a lot better than all alternatives that we have tried before.
And I wouldn't feel the need to talk about the EU at all if I wouldn't think that mechanism wouldn't be under threath from resurging nationalism with ensuing xenophobia in this continent. I think we would do well to squash that ourselves before we again need the help of forces from outside to extract this continent from yet another bloody war. The fact that the existence of the EU also makes that for every EU citizen the entire continent potentially is at his or her disposal makes it important to me too.
My political leaning in general; centralist, sometimes leaning to the left sometimes leaning to the right. Hardly ever significantly deviating to more extreme positions. Though in some particular issues I can be maximalist. Like with same sex marriage.
Hazir, I consider myself a centrist (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) but there's no place for that in US politics. We probably have more in common than any political party would like to admit!
But when it comes to the EU.....since it was started as a way to connect European nations, so they'd be less likely to fight/war with their trade partners....the principle is sound, but the process has flaws. I don't know why members think Brussels is to blame, when they send their own elected officials as reps. :confused:
A huge problem is how national politics abuse the EU. They get away with it by only confronting people back with the results of their negotiations in Brussels. In The Netherlands (and I think in some Scandinavian countries) they are trying to turn this around by having parliament debate every upcoming EU summit. That means our PM today is in Brussels, knowing what parlament thinks about how our first reaction to the British referendum should be and as it happens he can also reassure his collegues that talk about a referendum in Holland is without base. A big majority of parliament is against such a referendum and a referendum of that kind can only triggered by formal legislation. As it happens previously the council of state was asked an advice about such a referendum and one thing in that advice was interesting. It boils down to; the problem with consultative referenda is that politicians have a tendency to declare them binding and thus enhance the chances of chaos if the outcome is unexpected.Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT
More dumb experts: https://twitter.com/TheEIU/status/747743093114417152
Hannan has always supported EFTA membership. He is setting out what he thinks we should do, just as he has done for years before the vote. The control now is within the electorates hand to elect a government to do what we want it to do, agree a trade agreement (not political union) with the EFTA, or do an "Australian style points system" for instance, or something else altogether. That's our choice now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazir