covid-19

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Goalposts be moving...

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You're the one who mentioned Trump :noob:. You tried to twist my statement into an anti-Trump comment, then you cry foul because no one bit? Despite months of my postings in this thread talking about how Trump knew about the threat as far back as Feb/Mar and not caring to do anything about it because his team thought it would only decimate the inner cities. A position you parroted and defended until Texas and the Dakotas exploded.

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

You're the one who mentioned Trump :noob:. You tried to twist my statement into an anti-Trump comment, then you cry foul because no one bit? Despite months of my postings in this thread talking about how Trump knew about the threat as far back as Feb/Mar and not caring to do anything about it because his team thought it would only decimate the inner cities. A position you parroted and defended until Texas and the Dakotas exploded.

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This whole "not caring to do anything" bit is silly. Closed borders to China and was attacked by the left for it. Put together a task force, helped push funding for research/distribution of PPE/vents, Operation Warp Speed, sent hospital ship to NY (turns out not needed but the effort was there).

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Operation Warp Speed

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To hightlight your ignorance, this program didn't go active until May 15, even though we have reports that Trump ignored covid briefings as early as Jan.

and didn't you defend the federal's inaction on ppe funding? its not states money after all :rolleyes:

Pence leading the taskforce let everyone know from the beginning he didn't take this thing seriously considering pence's previous outbreak disasters.

Turns out I was half right. It's quite possible that Britain has a somewhat more contagious strain of Covid. But it's equally likely that so does most of the West. Britain is just better at identifying new strains.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Turns out I was half right. It's quite possible that Britain has a somewhat more contagious strain of Covid. But it's equally likely that so does most of the West. Britain is just better at identifying new strains.

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That's a far more accurate statement. There are other places that also have ok surveillance, but I would bet good money that the horses have definitely left the barn and this strain is widespread.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Goalposts be moving... but I will agree Trump utterly failed at messaging around the pandemic.

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What goalposts did I move?

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

This whole "not caring to do anything" bit is silly. Closed borders to China and was attacked by the left for it.

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How many Americans got into America from China after the borders closed?

If Trump cared about the virus and Americans, why did he hold superspreader rally events?

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Originally Posted by Loki

Turns out I was half right. It's quite possible that Britain has a somewhat more contagious strain of Covid. But it's equally likely that so does most of the West. Britain is just better at identifying new strains.

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Agreed. Just because it was identified here doesn't mean it is only here. It is remarkable how few countries are monitoring strains.

Scary seeing some of the numbers all over the place. Just under a thousand died yesterday in Germany, that had managed to do ok in the first wave. Quite plausible that Supercovid is already spreading there and behind the surge in deaths - and if it isn't then scary what could happen when it does get there and everywhere else.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqK0XbxX...jpg&name=small

Spokesman for DeSantis and dude with "my head is stuck up my ass" resting face says this, deletes his twitter account due to the understandable and entirely appropriate backlash.

British Airways flew 33 passengers to Stockholm despite the flight ban. Authorities were aware the plane would arrive, but not that it would be carrying passengers. All were permitted to enter (4 went on to Helsinki). None were tested. No contact info was taken. According to some sources, no information was given to the passengers wrt the concerns about the new lineage that had led to the flight ban—because there were posters at the airport encouraging people to visit some website for general covid info; according another source, the passengers may have met with a physician and encouraged to quarantine themselves. I suspect that, if a physician was involved, the assessments and info may nevertheless have been inadequate, given how the whole mess has been described. Our authorities considered this situation to be an unmanageable logistic problem.

Twitter Link

"I can't wear a mask because of health issues and you can't ask me to because of the law but I don't need to wear a mask because I'm healthy I'M FINE LOOK AT ME"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqQOx8xX...png&name=small

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Originally Posted by Aimless

British Airways flew 33 passengers to Stockholm despite the flight ban. Authorities were aware the plane would arrive, but not that it would be carrying passengers. All were permitted to enter (4 went on to Helsinki). None were tested. No contact info was taken. According to some sources, no information was given to the passengers wrt the concerns about the new lineage that had led to the flight ban—because there were posters at the airport encouraging people to visit some website for general covid info; according another source, the passengers may have met with a physician and encouraged to quarantine themselves. I suspect that, if a physician was involved, the assessments and info may nevertheless have been inadequate, given how the whole mess has been described. Our authorities considered this situation to be an unmanageable logistic problem.

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How come they were not sent back?

This is the pathetic, shit-eating face of modern American conservatism:

Twitter Link

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Originally Posted by Hazir

How come they were not sent back?

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No legal basis atm for refusing Swedish citizens entry to Sweden—they basically have an absolute right to enter. Though there is a passenger flight ban from the UK, the ban itself does not amount to a ban on individuals entering Sweden (so people can freely enter by transiting through other countries, whether by air or by car/train). But, of course, that shouldn't have stopped authorities from eg. asking people to get tested at the airport, or taking down relevant contact info in order to ensure adequate follow-up with testing done upon arrival at their ultimate destination. Most of these people likely did not even wear masks on the way to those destinations.

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Originally Posted by Hazir

How come they were not sent back?

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Stockholm Syndrome. :noob:

So, the idea is that the American public doesn't need to be told so in order to do the right thing.. and therefore they ste refusing to do the right thing, out of principle? Am I missing something here?

Twitter Link

Meanwhile, the Swedish minister of justice—who has been quite vocal about the whole personal responsibility thing during the pandemic—was seen at a mall during the Boxing Day sale, trying to get a belated Christmas gift for an elderly relative.

Catching up on the Ioannidis saga and it's just sad. One of the most well-regarded scientists in the world promulgating whiny covidiot takes. In other news, an unfortunate systematic review in JAMA, of studies looking at household secondary attack rate, is being used to argue that presymptomatic transmission is practically non-existent. Practically none of the included studies even attempt to distinguish between transmission in the presymptomatic vs. symptomatic stages—which is understandable, because it is very difficult in general, and nigh impossible when looking specifically at household transmission—and the largest study that does attempt to distinguish between those modes of transmission shows, consistent with modeling-focused studies, that risk of presymptomatic transmission is not much lower than risk of transmission in the symptomatic stage. This has certainly been a banner year for science—both good and bad.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

So, the idea is that the American public doesn't need to be told so in order to do the right thing.. and therefore they ste refusing to do the right thing, out of principle? Am I missing something here?

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Rubio is a hypocrite -- especially about the "elite bubble" -- but he's talking to Trump's base that's anti-science, anti-government, anti-vaccine, etc. and believes in conspiracy theories. A majority of Republicans surveyed don't think covid-19 is really a big deal, but over-exaggerated or manipulated data, or even a "hoax" perpetrated by the radical left or Deep State.

I ran into a man in the grocery store not wearing a mask so I asked him nicely, "Where's your mask?". He said, "I don't believe in them". Yeah, we've got a lot of that going on here. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

I hate to say it but this kind of stupidity is why the US is filled with lawyers. The best way to curtail this idiocy here is to hit them in the wallets.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

If she's willing to pay for the time, she's got great chances (though any recovery might well not be worth the legal fees, particularly if her tangible damages end up just being the missed/outsourced work). It's when the defendants very much outweigh the plaintiffs that the system starts to fail.

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Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

Negligent exposure to infection? Absolutely. Look at exposure to Legionaires, for instance. In this case the negligence and fault is easy. The primary difficulty will lie in establishing the defendant as the source of proximal exposure sufficient to potentially convince a jury (and, since juries can be stupid, sufficient to keep a judge from making a directed ruling notwithstanding the verdict). You also need to bear in mind that both plaintiff's and defendants lawyers would be failing utterly at their jobs if it actually went to trial, much less stayed there long enough for a jury to reach a verdict. Since there is clear negligence, both would be looking for a settlement.

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But Republicans wanted business "liability protections" (immunity from law suits) written into Covid relief legislation. That's partly what made congressional 'negotiations' so slow and difficult.

Republicans also want to keep that same type of blanket immunity for Police (who shoot and kill unarmed black men), but want to get rid of any 1st Amendment/Free Press protections for Social Media outlets (that perpetuate disinformation and Fake News).

Do we have too many lawyers who become politicians, or that too many politicians are lawyers? :noob:

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Originally Posted by GGT

But Republicans wanted business "liability protections" (immunity from law suits) written into Covid relief legislation. That's partly what made congressional 'negotiations' so slow and difficult.

Republicans also want to keep that same type of blanket immunity for Police (who shoot and kill unarmed black men), but want to get rid of any 1st Amendment/Free Press protections for Social Media outlets (that perpetuate disinformation and Fake News).

Do we have too many lawyers who become politicians, or that too many politicians are lawyers? :noob:

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A) that legislation hadn't passed yet at the time of exposure. B) they aren't a business. They are, in fact, the customer(s). Wouldn't apply to them anyway.

Thanks Fuzzy, but you skipped over my question about lawyers as legislators. In the big scheme of things, I have a hunch we have so much polarization in the US --- because we have too many lawyers that can bring law suits willy-nilly. Like Sidney Powell or Giuliani or Gohmert who can turn the judicial system into a circus, and/or elected officials like McConnell or Paul or Rubio who enable them.

Seems to me the ABA is as absent as the GOP; not condemning or removing the crazy conspiracy theorists from their ranks, but enabling the kooks who thrive on challenges without merit.

We have a highly infectious pandemic that's been political at every level, and our political process has failed, no thanks to lawyer-legislators. Sorry for rambling on....I know you hate that...but it's just ridiculous that our legal system keeps giving credence to quack lawyers. :noob:

Meanwhile, the Netherlands will be the last European country to start vaccinations. It is because they started planning much too later, assumed it'd be similar to flu vaccinations and had to change plans late when they found that out (note that all info was available on time). Of course the responsible minister pretends like this is okay and everything is on track and the whole thing wasn't mishandled.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

Meanwhile, the Netherlands will be the last European country to start vaccinations. It is because they started planning much too later, assumed it'd be similar to flu vaccinations and had to change plans late when they found that out (note that all info was available on time). Of course the responsible minister pretends like this is okay and everything is on track and the whole thing wasn't mishandled.

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“When the end of the world comes make your way to Holland. There everything happens fifty years late!”

JvD has been taking his talking points straight outta the Swedish playbook. Sad but not surprising that those who have relied on his advice are making mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Flixy

Meanwhile, the Netherlands will be the last European country to start vaccinations. It is because they started planning much too later, assumed it'd be similar to flu vaccinations and had to change plans late when they found that out (note that all info was available on time). Of course the responsible minister pretends like this is okay and everything is on track and the whole thing wasn't mishandled.

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Huh, really? I haven't been blown away by US preparation or ramp up, but most of my network in patient care settings has already received their first dose, and now I'm already seeing people getting vaccinated who work in long term care facilities and patient-adjacent healthcare roles. It's not like we didn't have a reasonable idea of the scale of the logistical challenge back in the summer...

I'm pretty shocked at the variable rate of vaccination in the rich world, ranging from nil to over 5% of the population in Israel (they're targeting a vaccination rate of 150k a day(!), which as a percentage of population is higher than the cumulative total of any country other than Bahrain). Obviously as we get to harder to vaccinate populations rates should slow down, but right now it's a clearly defined and easy to corral population - logistics should simply not be a problem.

Twitter Link

An MP. Ffs.

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Originally Posted by wiggin

Huh, really? I haven't been blown away by US preparation or ramp up, but most of my network in patient care settings has already received their first dose, and now I'm already seeing people getting vaccinated who work in long term care facilities and patient-adjacent healthcare roles. It's not like we didn't have a reasonable idea of the scale of the logistical challenge back in the summer...

I'm pretty shocked at the variable rate of vaccination in the rich world, ranging from nil to over 5% of the population in Israel (they're targeting a vaccination rate of 150k a day(!), which as a percentage of population is higher than the cumulative total of any country other than Bahrain). Obviously as we get to harder to vaccinate populations rates should slow down, but right now it's a clearly defined and easy to corral population - logistics should simply not be a problem.

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They started planning early, but based on incorrect assumptions that they corrected far too late. What annoys me more is that, as with being late on ramping up testing capacity earlier this yerlar, the people responsible are not taking the responsibility but somehow try to pretend that this approach is actually better.

Thr newspaper did a reconstruction on how they fucked this up, and it's really almost exact copy of the delay with the test capacity, looks like zero lessons were learned. At least the first time you can plead ignorance, but as you say, it's not like there wasn't time to prepare.

Cockney Covid has been found going back through the records of a German who died in Germany. He would have caught the bug in November.

I still suspect that Cockney Covid is all over Europe already. The case numbers in places like Germany simply make more sense if it is.

Its been confirmed in the US too, Colorado of all places, so you know that shit is all over the US by now.

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Originally Posted by Lewkowski

Operation Warp Speed

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...nated-n1252486
Operation Warp Speed at a crawl: Adequately vaccinating Americans will take 10 years at current pace

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

Its been confirmed in the US too, Colorado of all places, so you know that shit is all over the US by now.

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I just saw, was about to post it here. An individual with no travel history either so was caught locally.

It (or similar) almost certainly is everywhere or will be soon. Vicious bugger of a strain from what was already a vicious disease.

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Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...nated-n1252486
Operation Warp Speed at a crawl: Adequately vaccinating Americans will take 10 years at current pace

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Could be worse. In the first three days of vaccinations the French managed to vaccinate a grand total of 100 people. Not a typo.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...08d0452b087484

Very concerning considering unless their distribution is different there's 970 doses of vaccine in a box and once defrosted it is use it or lose it within 3.5 days.